Dd17 work won’t let her book some time off for her driving test

[Blueybingomum]

dd17 is currently doing an appearance in a nursery. She’s been there a year and absolutely loves it but the managers can’t be abit funny.

she passed her theory test last week straight away booked her driving test, now these are horrific to get atm and she luckily managed to get one in 11 weeks time.

she went to work yesterday and asked if she could book it off but manager has said it’s unlikely. She asked if she could just take the morning off as it’s at 11am but again, said unlikely. They told her she has to look at the staff rota and rebook her test. They have more staff than needed atm and are constantly sending staff home early.

Aibu to think it’s abit harsh.

And she hasn’t been told she can’t take it. Just that she can’t have this particular day.

Isn't this why most employers have a leave calendar that all staff can access and see how many people in the same roll have booked time off?

You seem to be implying that the employer is choosing to deny AL for no justifiable reason.

Which is exactly why it is bonkers for the manager to refuse half a day's annual leave with 11 weeks' notice, which is ample time to find a solution.

Being unreasonable about things like this will cause more people to call in sick first thing in the morning instead of telling you weeks or months ago they they needed to be absent that day.

If she didn't tell them they date she should just go off sick on that day.
Personally I'd look for another job, hopefully leave before the test date.

Booking a driving test slot isn't like booking a holiday though, is it? In the time it takes you to check the leave calendar (if it is even available in the way you seem to think it should be), the slot will most likely have gone.

This is tricky. With DD being 17, and on an apprenticeship, she's unlikely to have the confidence to discuss this with the manager in the way it needs discussing.

Personally, I'd be advising my daughter that this is a life lesson about the working world and how frustrating some employers can be. How she has to make choices in her working life about when to accept things and when to make a stand.

I'd be recommending my DD tries to discuss with her manager how she can access a driving test during the working day that is suitable for both her and the nursery. However my DD wouldn't do that, as she wouldn't feel confident to, so I'd then advise looking at all the options for taking her test on a non working day whilst looking around for another nursery to take over her apprenticeship.

You can't make her do what she's not comfortable with. You can parent her through this by giving her the information to make an informed choice.

I hope it gets resolved. And good luck to DD when she gets to the test.

That can't be the standard approach to booking leave can it? How on earth do their staff book to go away with family? It would be crazy to expect people to book and arrange that with less than 3 month's notice. Are they just not letting her book in advance because she's an apprentice and so gets last pick on dates?

Unless there's a good reason for them being unaccommodating on this occasion, I would play them. She shouldn't mention it again. If the manager asks then she should say she's managed to swap it to a Saturday in December. Pull a sickie on the day. Ideally she should swap the day anyway, in case the manager remembers her asking originally, but don't ask for the day off, just pull a sickie to take the test, so she can be sure of being able to go. Be careful on the test day. Don't post to social media about it. Don't go out other than to the test. And then don't tell people you've passed until mid-Jan.

I'm generally not keen on pulling sickies, but I would have no qualms if you can't book things in advance. If companies are going to treat employees so badly, they can't expect any loyalty from them.

Well yes, but that’s not the DD’s fault. She doesn’t own or run the nursery. She’s tried her best to do the right thing.

11 weeks notice? Tell her to leave. Nurseries are
desperate for staff in my town

IF and Most Likely.
But it may also be possible to rebook/swap...
The DD won't know unless she tries to make the change. I don't have your automatic negative outlook and for all we know, after making the effort to sort out the test date but failing, the employer could well agree to a couple of hours off.

I know it's really difficult to get a driving test date at the moment. Her employers are not being reasonable. I understand that they need the right staff cover but they must have arrangements for when staff are off sick etc. If your DD did get another date, they could well refuse again. They are being ridiculous.

And if the OP's daughter manages to change her test date and her manager says no to that date as well? Then what?

Sorry but it is just not reasonable to deny someone a few hours' leave with 11 weeks' notice. And as I said before, if my employer denied me leave for a driving test I wouldn't ask them a second time. I'd just plan to call in sick on the day of the new test date. I wouldn't want to take the risk of being screwed over again.

But it's not that particular day that's the problem, it's that they don't want to agree to leave until they do the rota. If she can't book any leave because the rota hasn't been done there's no point swapping the test (except that it means she can pull a sickie for a day she hasn't already mentioned wanting leave on...)

This is what I would do as well.

Driving tests are like hens teeth these days! Her manager is obviously being unreasonable. I'd get on the swapping apps and try and find something different but if she can't, 100% pull a sickie.

Exactly, the responses to this thread are mad.
My DH works in an industry where if you want a day off you just submit it and it will be authorised, I guess he would reply the same as a lot of people on here.
I work in a sector where there are strict minimum staffing levels. We can book leave up to 15 months ahead but if the numbers would drop below the minimum required to be on duty, then the leave request would be declined.
I have had to decline one of my teams leave request this week for this reason. I don’t like it but there is no cover. I myself can’t have off next May half term because two of the other supervisors had already booked holidays. Frustrating but there is no other option.

The only thing I would say, I would probably try and work with the employee to come up with some solution eg she can do the test on her break. Have a couple of hours for the break and she can make up the time elsewhere. However if even that is not feasible then tough luck.

Does someone else already have that day booked off? I dont work in a nursery (retail) but it's perfectly normal for a holiday request to get rejected if someone else already has that day booked off or if it's expected to be particularly busy. Quite surprised by the voting to be honest.

If the staff rota has already been published for that day then your daughter needs to ask someone to swap with her. If the rota hasn't been published then the nursery are being unreasonable and she needs to point that out and tell them not to schedule her for that day.

Is it a paid apprenticeship? How was it arranged? If it was through her college then I would get her to approach the organiser and explain the situation, they may be able to intervene.

And to be honest, at the end of the day, if the nursery are just being objectionable for the sake of it, then I would advise your daughter to look for a new placement, nurseries are crying out for staff!

Advising people to pull a sickie on an apprenticeship is really poor advice that I hope the OP doesn’t listen to. The manager will 100% cotton on to it and may affect her ongoing employment at that premises. Easy to recommend casually when it’s not your job prospects.

It’s honestly weird. It is such normal practise in many different fields of employment for leave to be denied if the staffing levels don’t allow for it.

You're absolutely right that it is a teachable moment, but the OP should be careful not to teach her daughter that sometimes your employer is just a dickhead and you have to suck it up because they have all the power and you are lucky to have a job.

A lot of employers take the piss and show zero goodwill towards their staff because they know that their staff are too afraid to stand up for themselves. Obviously it's complicated when you're a 17 year old apprentice and your employer really does have all the power. But the long term life lesson needs to be about learning to assert herself in a mature, respectful way, to maximise the chances of getting the outcome she wants and minimise the chances of being repeatedly screwed over.

So my advice would be:

• Go back to the manager and calmly explain how difficult it is to get a driving test slot, how important this is for her ability to work, and how it is simply not practical to check dates with her manager first before booking a test slot, because in the time it takes to check, the slot will be gone. Point out that it should be possible to find a solution with 11 weeks' notice.

• If she still has no joy, look for another test date, and as soon as she has found one, if it happens to be during work hours, don't tell the manager about it and call in sick that day. OP should make it clear that calling in sick is the wrong thing to do, but some employers make it impossible for you to do the right thing.

• In the longer term, look for a job somewhere else, and in the interview, ask questions about things like this. "What is your annual leave booking policy? I had a bad experience in my previous job where I was denied a half day's leave with 11 weeks' notice for a driving test slot, and it made me want to look for a more understanding employer in my next job."

• Tell DD that if she does well in her chosen career then she might find herself in the manager's role later on, and all of these experiences should be seen as a useful lesson in how to manage and how not to manage your staff.

• Encourage her to learn more about employment law and, if applicable, join a union, so that no matter where she is in her career, she understands what rights she has and what rights she doesn't have, so that when she is in a difficult situation she knows whether to bang her fist on the table and say, "what you are doing is against the law" or whether she needs to adopt a "you attract more bees with honey" approach to getting the outcome she wants.

Do you work in the childcare industry? Because it’s not the same as an office job

People accepting this as normal is the reason why employers can't be arsed to accommodate their employees' reasonable requests.

My advice isn't industry specific. Everyone is entitled to annual leave. It's absolutely ridiculous to say that a rota can't be changed with almost three months' notice.

A manager with two brain cells to rub together would understand that saying no to requests like this is going to cause more absenteeism.

I've heard appalling stories about working practices in nurseries, too.

A young family member was appallingly bullied by colleagues at the one where she works. Management did nothing about it for 18 months, then the business changed hands, the manager left and the new manager read the bullies the riot act.