KPMG apprentice programme instead of university?

[Apprenticeoruni]

My daughter is thinking of skipping university and going straight to work, specifically targeting KPMG’s apprenticeship as she wants a career in finance so thinks this will lead her to the same place but in less time without student debt. It sounds sensible but I can’t help but think the university experience, even the social and living side, is invaluable for later life and that she’d regret missing those years later in life. I also have friends who have worked at KPMG, but a long time ago, and they worked really hard so I’m worried she’d be sacrificing her best years just to get ahead. I’d really love to hear from anyone whose child has made the same decision-whether good or bad- to help me understand what it’s really like and if the benefits outweigh my concerns! So AIBU to support her decision without challenge or should I gently nudge in the direction of university?

I’m not aware of that meme but that is a worry. Thanks for an alternative view of the opportunity.

I would add that the "Uni experience" that we enjoyed is vastly different to uni today. Far more people live at home due to cost and have to work many jobs there really isn't the same experience of socialising that it was "back in the day". Obviously people still have a great time but apprenticeships are brilliant in my view!

Another one who says it’s a no brainier.

To get into a top 4 programme is not easy.

She could go to uni, end up in loads of debt and struggle with a training contract.

This way she is training with a reputable firm, assuming he qualifies will be ahead of everyone who went to Uni and in no debt!

Do it! 😬

Great idea. I work in this industry and have come across lots of people who've started this way. They are bright and hard working, I'd hire any of them. I went via the degree route and it was a (fun) waste of money & 3 years. I hope my own kids choose the apprentice route rather than what I did.

Oh and training scheme years were as fun as uni and more! Social scene was great and I had so much more money than at uni so could really enjoy it.

It’s a GREAT option. She will launch her career, not have debt, and earn way more than her peers way earlier. She can take time out and do a degree/MBA later; yes it will be a different experience to uni but I do not think she will regret it (I have experience in this area and have seen many people make a huge success of these schemes).

I've worked at EY and Deloitte, and DH has worked at Deloitte and KPMG. Some people love big 4 some people hate it. We both hated it with a passion, but there are people who absolutely thrive. A lot depends on the team and which office you're in. Even if you hate it, however, once you've served your time, you have a ticket to pretty much wherever you want to go with your career. I love the job I do now and I'm paid a lot to do it. That wouldn't have been possible without grinding through the big 4 at the start of my career.

Edited to say: I did the grad training scheme in London and socially it was way better than uni because we had money to spend and better places to go because of it. I had an absolute fucking ball with the other grads.

This would be my concern as well (though I'm not in the industry so I don't know how well founded it is). What happens if it turns out you hate finance? Or you hate it in ten years time?

I'd also be wary of specialising too soon, especially in finance, in which jobs are being hit hard by AI. We literally don't know what jobs are going to be around in ten years time.

In the best case, and I know this isn't always true, university level learning teaches students how to think in particular ways, how to research and problem solve, and how to express and defend their ideas in various formats. I'd want to know that degree apprenticeships did the same.

Same goes for investment banking. Tier 1 isn’t for everyone. Some thrive on the pressure and environment and buzz. Some don’t, but if you can work like a dog for 3 years at the start of your career, you can go anywhere you want after and they’ll bite your hand off. I wholly disagree with the PP who said you are trapped there if you don’t have a degree; this is absolutely not the case with an apprenticeship. Many IB colleagues have moved over to consulting in the big 4 after a few years.

At the end of the day; these are high pressured, but very well paid positions. If you want to work, you’ll be rewarded.

I work at Big4, trained at mid tier as a graduate. If I’d known what I wanted to do at 18 I would definitely go back and do an apprenticeship now.

As a trainee/graduate we had a work hard play hard philosophy and I look back on those years more fondly than my uni years. I think our apprentices and grads do the same nowadays, but I’m too old/uncool/senior to be involved so I can’t be sure.

I’d encourage it if I was in your shoes.

I work at Big4, trained at mid tier as a graduate. If I’d known what I wanted to do at 18 I would definitely go back and do an apprenticeship now.

As a trainee/graduate we had a work hard play hard philosophy and I look back on those years more fondly than my uni years. I think our apprentices and grads do the same nowadays, but I’m too old/uncool/senior to be involved so I can’t be sure.

I’d encourage it if I was in your shoes.

Not quite KPMG but a large regional practice.

We used to take apprentices at 18. By 21 they were close to fully qualified whilst the graduate entry still had to do the professional exams.

Just another thought, finance isn’t all about auditing. There’s several strands of accountancy you can do, so look at the websites and look at the options.

Absolutely!

I joined as a tax grad, which is way more limited in scope than auditing. Of the 40ish of us who joined at the same time, I'm one of about 5 of us who still works in tax. There's an amazing array of careers among my cohort. For the auditors, it's even more diverse.

In my humble opinion, I think the KPMG scheme is the way to go.

One of my relatives did the apprentice scheme with KPMG. By the time she was qualified her brother was leaving uni with a massive debt and was earning less than she was. She managed to get a secondment overseas where she has stayed. She now works for another company and earns really good money.
She did have to work really hard but doesn’t regret it at all.

I would definitely say yes, it's a very prestigious thing to have on her CV and will set her up for life, whatever she decides to eventually do. She can always go back to uni at a later date if she feels the need. It will be very, very hard work (though probably nothing like it was a decade or more ago!) but she'll be with loads of other people her age going through the same thing, and there are masses of social opportunities from proper clubs to informal drinks.

My DD1 has a Maths degree from an RG uni and then completed her chartered accountancy professional exams with a Big 4 company in Audit. She says the stereotype is that everyone in Audit has the ambition to get out of Audit ( this may be an exaggeration) and into Tax, consultancy or into a corporate finance job. Once qualified, there are simply masses of options if she wants to leave KPMG and work somewhere else.

At kpmg audit is the only section which does apprenticeships so it’s the only way in really if you’re going that route

Oh this is wrong - ignore me 😆

DS is doing a degree apprenticeship and absolutely loves it, he's made good friends there, lives away and really enjoys his work. It's not big 4 though and so doesn't have the stress/pressure that working there probably would.

I would say though that she's going to need top grades predicted, have a confident, outgoing, proactive personality, an impressive amount of extra curriculars and be well prepped for interviews (ie have researched the company and their values, be up to date on what is happening in the field, answer in STAR format, have strong examples of different skills etc) to help her stand out. I'd also recommend applying to a number of apprenticeships to increase her chances (if she's keen to go down that route) and to also give her more experience of the application process.

DS started looking around Oct/Nov of Yr 13 and applied to about 15 or 20 different places. JP Morgan (for example) had around 2000 applicants for 25 places so competition is fierce. There are also often several stages to the process and you may have interviews at the same time as mocks. The Student Room can be a useful place to find out information about the process with different companies and chat to others that have applied DS found.

I’d be thrilled if my child wanted to do this and got a place. Degrees are not good value for money anymore unless you are pursuing a career that needs it e.g. medicine.

I’m a senior finance leader and trained myself with KPMG (as a graduate because it was way before they offered apprenticeships). When I see a CV of someone who joined as a apprentice, they automatically get extra kudos from me because they were smart enough not to saddle themselves with a load of debt for a degree that is quite frankly not needed if they are planning to do professional accountancy exams with a Big4.

Uni isn’t worth the price paid for most people these days I don’t think

I mean this kindly.

Your experience of university was:
Mainly free
Pre internet
Pre social media
Pre internet in rooms
When student accommodation was basic and affordable
Pre remote learning destroying a lot of that cohort experience.

It’s not something available to your daughter.

The apprenticeship route in a big scheme probably offers more of what you’re thinking of than a university degree would today.

(it’s a lot easier to have fun when you’re being paid than running up debt).

I would absolutely take the KPMG route over Uni.

As Scary monster says above Uni was very different 20 - 30 years ago, but its costly and that level of debt can take years to clear.

Some of my friends lived it large, scraping through, but most worked two jobs, which alongside studying was hard, but the Uni experience is different for everyone.

I take your point about the benefits of university on life skills etc.

However, there are so many more graduates now. It is much more competitive in the jobs market. My DD graduated last summer with a 2.1 and it took her 6 months to get an interview.