KPMG apprentice programme instead of university?

[Apprenticeoruni]

My daughter is thinking of skipping university and going straight to work, specifically targeting KPMG’s apprenticeship as she wants a career in finance so thinks this will lead her to the same place but in less time without student debt. It sounds sensible but I can’t help but think the university experience, even the social and living side, is invaluable for later life and that she’d regret missing those years later in life. I also have friends who have worked at KPMG, but a long time ago, and they worked really hard so I’m worried she’d be sacrificing her best years just to get ahead. I’d really love to hear from anyone whose child has made the same decision-whether good or bad- to help me understand what it’s really like and if the benefits outweigh my concerns! So AIBU to support her decision without challenge or should I gently nudge in the direction of university?

My friend’s eldest did this at PWC and it’s made her highly employable and quite well off. She also has professional qualifications equal to degree level. You know your daughter can quit KPMG and go to Uni if she wants, but may not be able to get into a KPMG apprenticeship if she drops out of uni.

I used to work at Deloitte and know quite a few people who did the scheme. (One did a year at uni, decided it wasn’t for them, and joined Deloitte instead).

On the whole they had a really positive experience! Obviously it’s really hard working and doing exams, and not the same as university, but they’re now around 25ish earning c.£60k - £90k and no debts whatsoever.

It’s very lucrative if that’s what your DD wants to do - and she doesn’t have to stay with Big 4 forever!

If she gets in - yes! Competition will be tough though. She can always leave after 2 years and go to uni.

I used to work at Deloitte and know quite a few people who did the scheme. (One did a year at uni, decided it wasn’t for them, and joined Deloitte instead).

On the whole they had a really positive experience! Obviously it’s really hard working and doing exams, and not the same as university, but they’re now around 25ish earning c.£60k - £90k and no debts whatsoever.

It’s very lucrative if that’s what your DD wants to do - and she doesn’t have to stay with Big 4 forever!

Bloody hell, if I had a kid smart and capable enough to get on this I would absolutely encourage them to do so.

She can earn a shit load and retire in her 50s.

Go for it!

I have mentored students and nowadays would encourage them to go down the apprenticeship route to qualification as a lawyer or accountant.

They get hands on training and in my view often make better professionals and they don't end up with masses of debt and a uni degree with a risk of no job at the end of the degree course.

There is a but - do you think she will cope with a high pressure firm such as KPMG and will she get in the firm as competition will be fierce. Also, will she be able to cope with working and doing exams ?

Yes!
They'll be able to afford to live independently id they choose to.
I loved uni and moving away, for all the same reasons you say, but if my children can get on with their careers without uni, I'm all for it. I think it would mean learning to let go a bit whilst they still live at home to encourage and foster the independence.

These schemes are great, and she will be set for life once shes gone through it.

She will have to commit though to doing it properlt, they will work her hard, so going out on wednesday night to get pissed with her mates who have chosen uni isnt an option.

I am an accountant and worked with KPMG advisors who were on this scheme. Whilst not a university experience they had a good social experience in their cohort, some shared accommodation etc.
If I had children who wanted to go into finance I would strongly encourage the apprentice route unless they had a degree subject they were passionate about and likely to excel in.

Ex Deloitte here. I loved engaging with our Bright Starts - fabulous people. Overwhelmingly their experience is positive and I’d say 100% go for it. Internships and grad jobs are not easy to come by and she has done brilliantly. She’ll come out employable, could potentially be a partner in her early 30s and not have any student debt to worry about.

My kids were adamant they wanted uni but had they applied for a Big 4 Apprenticeship I’d have been totally supportive.

This is all really positive and maybe shows I’m a bit out of touch by presuming uni has to be the best option. I just can’t imagine missing out on the friends I made there or the carefree times! But I wasn’t facing the same debt prospect. Seems like she is making a good decision. Does anyone have any experience of KPMG? It’s audit she wants to join. I’ve of course seen negative FT articles about the big 4 but would appreciate any first hand insight!

My dc has done an EY apprenticeship, and moved away from home to do so. He lived with other school leavers, and they had a network with other young professionals in the area. He’s now qualified with no debt, and has brought his first flat, and is further ahead in his career than his uni peers.

My advice would be to apply for the apprenticeship and uni, and to defer the uni to keep her options open. Those apprenticeships are hard to get, so if she gets one, she should grab the opportunity.

My daughter went to PWC from uni, having achieved a first in chemical engineering. The benefit of this and her great CV was when she decided to move on. However she often said the ones on the apprenticeship had no debt and ended up with the same qualification. I did ask her recently if she regrets going to uni, due to her high student loan repayments, her answer was ‘ no, absolutely not, they were the best times ever’.
Good luck to your daughter, whatever she chooses.

I think the university experience is not what it was for most students. They are concerned about debt and most of them have to work alongside their studies much more than the generation before them. They seem much less sociable too, due to online spaces taking the place of IRL socialising.

I would encourage her to apply for degree apprenticeships, she's not going to miss out, but be aware they are very competitive and she may not get one. It's a lot easier to get a university place, even at the best universities than a degree apprenticeship from a prestigious firm.

This sounds like a great opportunity, and also sounds like it’s been around a while with a good support structure.

I wonder if this sort of thing will become more popular. My DC are way too young for uni, but they cannot understand why anyone would want to spend 3 years socialising, drinking, living in a shared grotty house etc, without even considering the debt and the lack of guaranteed well-paid job at the end of it. A lot of young people seem to socialise online, don’t drink, and favour going to the gym which sounds completely at odds to the university experience I recognise.

We have these schemes in my firm and they are fantastic. They come out far ahead of graduates, having valuable experience, not in shedloads of debt and with a mature outlook. The graduate scheme is pretty much oxbridge too, which is frustrating for those of us who’d rather have a more diverse workforce.

I’d say definitely go for it!

Absolute no brainer.

No debt, valuable qualification, a few years ahead of their peers professionally.

I work in consultancy and I would absolutely recommend this. I went travelling mid 20s and met loads of people on sabaticals from big firms and law firms etc that had taken a year out in their 20s to explore the world so if she feels the need to do this kind of thing then it can be done ina few years. Student debt is insane now, I went to uni and I am hoping my kids do not want to go. You can take a degree at any stage in life if you want to persue one. I did a law post grad in my late 20s and was one of the youngest people on the course.
Noone has even asked about my degree since my first job either.
I really think she is taking the best route here.

Not the same firm but my DS did a degree apprenticeship. No tuition fees, earning while learning plus a guaranteed job, he just got his degree awarded and got a 1st class. They are ridiculously competitive though.

I went to uni, my sister went to Coopers and Lybrand at age 18 (showing our age haha).

We both had a blast, it's not as if you have to be at uni to enjoy your youth! She has had a fantastic career whereas mine is, I'd say, 'pretty good'. A lot of this can come down to personality and capability of course but there's no doubt in my mind that if you can get one and you're the type to thrive on it, 100% go for the apprenticeship.

Uni is a luxury, far from guaranteed to get you a great job at the end of it. There's no substitute for work experience. And if you're worried about missing out on the opportunity to study something you love, why not do that AFTER you've established yourself in a career rather than BEFORE?

I don't know, it all sounds good but I think there is still something to be said for finding yourself and developing your personality, interests and social skills over 3 years of university. Even if uni is not the same as it was.

I've worked at Big 4 and the idea of starting there at 18 - 18! And working there until retirement is just a bit depressing even though it would come with rewards. It's a high pressure, often up or out environment. You don't know if it's going to suit you until you're in it, and the percentage who make partner is very low, as you'd expect.

It’s a great option but it is really brutally hard, and KPMG gets a really bad rep for work/life balance (in that there isn’t one) and has absolutely earned that reputation. It’s good money but they do take their pound of flesh, it’s certainly not the environment for everyone to thrive in.

If she can get one and is very disciplined then go for it - no debt and the chance to enjoy life going out and holidays etc. plus save for a house deposit, whilst gaining the same qualification plus 4 years experience!

Competition is very high though - there are only about 50k degree apprenticeship places vs 565k Uni places in the UK

My dd just finished year 1 & it was the right decision for her and she is glad she chose it. Hers is not in finance, I would say it's a less competitive subject - but there were over 5k applicants for 51 places and a few have not been able to hack the dual load of working and study/assignments and have dropped out

I work in finance so I will offer the other side of the coin so that she can go in with eyes open.

No company, not a single one, does something out of the goodness of their hearts. They do it so they can pay them less and make them less likely to leave.

I know directors at a tier-1 investment bank who cannot leave jobs that they hate because the don’t have a degree (they came in and worked their way up in the way it used to be possible to do), and they do not pass the first round of HR/AI screening for the equivalent job elsewhere. That extra three years of experience at the beginning of the career counts for nothing when you’re 10+ years in, and then you have to compete with someone who has Oxbridge on their CV (which like it or not, still opens doors).

I interview for apprentice programmes in a big US bank. Why do we hire them? Because they’re cheap, we know they’ve got fewer options to leave, and we can give them all the shit boring work that needs to be done and they’ll be grateful to do it because they think that being paid 35k with no progression sounds like a lot of money. (ETA I just looked up the KPMG apprentice salary - 25k. lol good luck subsidising their rent for the first few years). Meanwhile the Associates with a master’s degree are being paid 100k for quant roles.

I would say go for it if university is not for you, and your other option is a not great course at a not great university. But make sure that you’re getting really good experience with a good team and manager and you’re not just being farmed out to do the crap that no one else wants to do. If you’re not and finance is the end game anyway, then go to uni because by the time you’re at director level you’ll be clearing the fees at pace once you hit 150k, which should be doable in a few years.

Also there’s a reason why it’s a meme that KPMG is a terrible place to work. I wouldn’t advise my kid to work there!