To find it ridiculous that my work is encouraging those with neurodivergence to add details of their neurodivergence to their email signatures “so colleagues can accommodate your needs?”

[SnugShaker]

I get the intention behind it but it just feels like an uncomfortable and unnecessary step. Why should employees be expected to disclose their neurodivergence in a public way, especially when it could lead to unwanted assumptions or even stigma? There’s a line between creating an inclusive environment and putting the burden of disclosure on individuals, and it seems like this might be crossing that line. Shouldn’t accommodations be handled in a more private, respectful way without having to broadcast personal information?

Bullshit it's disrespectful. The context of the discussion is whether it has serious significant effects on people's work. It's not "disrespectful" to compare very differernt things that might have a serious impact on people's work.

I realise that it is not popular to point it out, but with the changes in scope for diagnosing autism, there are plenty of people who manage quite well in a workplace setting with autism, with minimal interventions. There are people who have flare ups of hemorrhoids and fissures that mean they can't stand for long, can't sit at all, and are in excruciating pain during these episodes with few options for pain relief. Treatments are not always very successful.

A lot of people have no idea how debilitating these conditions can be, they see them as comical, probably only having experienced a very mild form.

Many things are fairly manageable when milder, and those same things can be debilitating in other cases. This is what people so focused on accommodating anyone labled "ND" seem to misunderstand.

I do find it odd

I found it odd. Then I realised how much society doesn't give a shit about the less able and it all made sense. res ipsa loquitor and all that.

There’s no mild autism. To reach the threshold it needs to have a significant impact on life. Do you liken more visible disabilities to having piles?

I think part of the issue peopel are having is actually that people are coming into work, saying they need accomodation for ND (whatever that is meant to mean in the given situation,) and it looks very much like they can cope at work. They are stressed by the same things many others are, but are saying they need to be relieved, when others just need to suck it up with these stressful elements.

Some of this may be invisible effects, but I'm not convinced it all is. Some of it may be that diagnostic criteria seem to be creeping - this is a known phenomena with behaviourally based diagnoses. So people who are not so seriously impacted are being included.

But I do sometimes thing some of it is lack of insight people have about their own condition. There is a tendency, particularly among autistic people, to struggle to see how others are impacted by the same issues. So they see it as an autism thing, when actually it's common. Not everyone is getting along fine with x, y, or z, either. Tik tok really encourages this but it's also on a lot of forums and groups related to autism, things are put down to the diagnosis that are pretty universal struggles.

This really complicates working with people around appropriate accommodations.

Not all people with autism are impacted equally, I am sorry if you don't like it, that is just true. And not all in the same way which is significant since we are talking about work specifically.

Of course you can compare impacts, that's the fucking point. If something is debilitating in terms of WORK, it is, if it isn't, it isn't. The specific diagnosis doesn't change thta whether it's piles, ADHD, schizophrenia, blindness, or having had your legs cut off by a train.

I mean - these kinds of notes are a good solution, but why wouldn't the person who wants them do them up for himself, if others don't feel they need them?

They really don’t.Yes NT people may struggle with the some of the same conditions as some autistic people however autistic people have their autism too so it’s a gazzilion times worse. Hence their autism being classed as a disability.

Eg a flight of stairs. Some unfit personnel may struggle to go up a flight of stairs every day however for some who are physically disabled it’s hugely worse so not comparable. They have the
same discomfort everybody has on top of their disability.

I am convinced some people have differernt visual brains.

I have to do up some posters and things at work, and I send these off to someone else for approval. She is always going on about readability and accessibility and such, and will point out things she thinks I should change. Sometimes they are good suggestions, I can see as soon as I change it that it's better. But overall, she herself is terrible for creating good products. They are wordy, difficult to read from any distance, you can't see what they are about, people find them confusing.

She's not lazy (unlike our web page person, who produces unusable shite because she is lazy.) If anything the opposite, she almost over-works. So she is trying to make things readable and is looking at guidelines and such. But what comes out at the end is not very readable at all. It's like she isn't really looking, I don't know, I have no real explanation.

There is a very high threshold involved re getting a diagnosis of autism in the 3 main areas. Autistic people vary however due to the high threshold re said traits they will be massively more impacted than NTs.

Also as a ND person, I don't know why more employers aren't using programmes and systems that literally take the notes for you in presentations and meetings.

Funny story.

About 10 years ago I was going round the IBM R&D facility at Hursley in Hampshire. They were showing off all their innovations for the 21st century workplace.

One was a glass conference table that had cameras mounted underneath it. The idea was any document placed on there was automatically captured and then could be displayed on the huge TV screen in the room. The idea was that people could assemble anywhere in the world with no preparation and maximum cooperation.

There was the suitable "oohs" and "aahs" as the tech was demonstrated and documents were instantly rendered on the screen - correct orientation and all.

"And of course" I said "That's connected to Watson so the documents are all OCRd and the images described in the appropriate language for a global audience ?"

"Er, no" said the sales guide (whose title was "curator"). They were just about to say "Why on earth would we do that ?" when a minder announced everything we were seeing was in development and not intended to be taken as an actual product.

Watson was very impressive - would piss all over any "AI" I have seen since.

Again, I don't think you understand how impacts work. No, not everything is worse for someone with autism. You are showing lack of insight into other people's experience and a tendency to see hard categories where in fact they are not hard.

A given disabled person may struggle less with stairs than a given unfit person. In fact - this is the real issue - an unfit person may in fact be disabled by their unfitness.

Autism isn’t just 1 trait and they interlink and heighten each other. Often they come with ADHD too so absolutely things are going to be an awful lot worse. An anxiety provoking situation will be hugely more difficult for somebody with social and communication difficulties, sensory difficulties and repetitive behaviours at a very high level to reach diagnosis let alone with ADHD too. All 3 elevate each other. NT don’t have that to contend with on top which is why autism is a protected disability.

Yanbu that shouldn't be something anyone feels pressure to publicise. But it sounds like a good idea for it to be "ok" for someone to put something into their signature if they want to. Someone I know quite distantly in a work context and only exchange emails with about twice a year has a line "here's a link to my user manual" in her signature. The user manual link takes you to a webpage with about 10 different sections about eg communication style, work style, how I deal with giving and receiving feedback, which is clearly aimed at helping people to deal with working with someone who is clealy a brilliant mind for what she does, with none of the padding that neurotypical people pack around their daily interactions. However, it is not about her diagnosis and labels. It doesn't mention autism or adhd. It just tells people what they need to know. I admire her greatly. I would quite like to have a similar page of my own but I have spent all my professional life masking my neurodiversity and I don't feel I have the courage to emulate her openness.

In fact - this is the real issue - an unfit person may in fact be disabled by their unfitness.

What do you mean by this in relation to autism?

Lovely site at Hursley, though (she says irrelevantly.)

Not a real issue though is it ? If you’re unfit, you can work on that and become fitter. You can’t become un-disabled just by going to the gym.

When I was there people were catching the Pokemon Go characters in the grounds.😀

The specific definition of disability is determined by how much it impacts your life, not just employment. To be considered for any adjustment at a workplace you have to demonstrate significant and long term impact on life in general. So yes, the specific diagnosis does matter. Or are you suggesting piles would have the same impact on someone’s life as schizophrenia ?

I’m still waiting for an explanation of the comparison of piles to autism. There seems to be no real understanding of autism and the fact that it involves processing difficulties.

That’s not the point. Unless a condition meets the definition of disability, reasonable adjustments are not applicable.

Well for a start many of us struggle with task switching and executive functioning that would make it hard to be an active listener and an active note taker.

The technology exists to avoid this being an issue

Isn't this what's known as "othering"?

That's going to be a very long email signature. One person with ND needs completely different accomodations to another. This is ridiculous.

I have been diagnosed with BPD too, I suspect that's the source of our cynicism.
If I really think about how "accommodating" colleagues would be if I listed the fact in my email signature I laugh until I cry.

According to the Equality Act no formal diagnosis is needed. But it’s not true to say that any condition can be a disability. Some, like hay fever or alcoholism/drug addiction, and indeed, piles, for example don’t constitute disability in themselves and are specifically excluded unless they are a contributing factor to more severe disability. And some conditions like cancer, for example automatically qualify as a disability regardless of their impact on the person. A person who has had cancer that has been cured and no longer has any effect is still regarded as disabled.