To find it ridiculous that my work is encouraging those with neurodivergence to add details of their neurodivergence to their email signatures “so colleagues can accommodate your needs?”

[SnugShaker]

I get the intention behind it but it just feels like an uncomfortable and unnecessary step. Why should employees be expected to disclose their neurodivergence in a public way, especially when it could lead to unwanted assumptions or even stigma? There’s a line between creating an inclusive environment and putting the burden of disclosure on individuals, and it seems like this might be crossing that line. Shouldn’t accommodations be handled in a more private, respectful way without having to broadcast personal information?

That’s because many employers try to use a past cancer diagnosis as reason to discriminate both in the recruitment process and the workplace. The assumption is that the employee would need significant time off work if there were to be a relapse - even if the cancer had been successfully treated with no residual disability. Having had cancer increases your chances of getting it again and that’s what the protection is for.

ND isn't even a real condition.

Disability depends on the effect, not the diagnosis itself.

But even if it didn't, things liek piles can be debilitating. Many conditions can be debilitating for some people. The same condition may be manageable for another.

the same is true for people with autism, adhd, and other conditions.

I think the problem here is twofold.

One element is simply that the process is the punishment. This is why cousin's workplace gives severance. Once you get the unions involved and all the rest, the whole thing could be massively expensive, and also really bad publicity. And long and drawn out, and during that time you can't even replace the employee. It'snot worth the money or other risks.

The other issue is that as much as things ought to go a certain way if the truth is on the side of the employer when the employee is a bully, or incompetent, it actually isn't that reliably true in practice. Decisions seem to be batshit at times and a clever lawyer can often raise reasonable doubts because it's so hard to pin down claims of racism.

There is a differernce between not being a great writer and being incapable of doing the job?

Or maybe they have a disability? Is being a poor reader or writer ok if you have autism or dyslexia, but not if you don't?

I'm not sure why people don't take their own notes if they want them?

An agenda can be helpful but it doesn't make sense for every kind of meeting. And I think is overkill for others.

I’d love this.

Kind regards,
R0ckandHardPlace (she/her/it)

ASD. Please don’t talk to me about anything non work-related. Especially don’t witter on about your holiday, children or dog. I’m not fucking interest.

The definition of disability according to the Equality Act 2010 is a long term physical or mental impairment that has a substantial and long-term negative effect on the ability to do normal daily activities. Substantial meaning more than minor or trivial - for example the condition meaning it takes much longer than it usually would to complete a daily task like getting dressed. Long term means lasting 12 months or more. No formal diagnosis is necessary to be considered disabled under the Act.

Piles are treatable and not usually so severe or long term that they would qualify as a stand alone disability - more as a component of a wider ranging condition or combination of conditions. The Act doesn’t define disability according to how well a person manages the effects of a condition. It’s the effects themselves which must meet the criteria, And ND is an umbrella term encompassing a range of disorders, any of which can meet the criteria for disability if they are severe enough. Not sure you understand what ND really is if you’re comparing it to piles.

The substantial effects and managing them are not discrete, I'm not sure how you can't see how that is the case in a workplace scenario.

This is what I don’t get- the poster indicated the attendees take turns in taking and sending out meeting notes- so everyone does extra work to support the ND person? That’s not a reasonable adjustment.
Besides the varying quality and care of the notes makes me wonder how useful they are

agendas are only used for formal meetings with lots of different topics ie committees, board, steering groups or meetings that have a specific purpose ie projects in my world.

not only would it be hard to not go off agenda in day to day meetings, most of it would look like:

• sarah update on progress of x
• jane feed back how this impacts her
• boohoo feeds back the impact on corporate
• everyone tries to think of a better way to meet everyone’s beeds
• meeting closes

😂

Whether something is treatable is neither here nor there. There are lots of conditions that have treatment, to mitigate some of the effects of the disorder or condition but it doesnt go away. In the theoretical example, actually not all piles are treatable in that they disappear and never return, but in any case a better comparison is that ADHD has treatment options but thats not to make it disappear.

To get an autism diagnosis it needs to have a significant impact on life. That is not the case with piles.

So very disrespectful to liken autism to piles.

At the end of the day do the benefit bashers want autistic people in work or not. You can’t have it both ways.

A disability isnt based on a diagnosis though, any condition can be a dsability, depending on its effect on you.

I can’t really see how this work, as a NT person I just want to concentrate on my job not spend time or take responsibility for trying to remember that Brian in accounts doesn’t like bullet points or being asked to take minutes or that Mary in Marketing forgets when meetings are so had to be reminded.

This may sound flippant but it is up to the employer to put support in place but also imo the employee to also ensure they do as much as possible to support themselves in work eg using calendar reminders.

In the same way I don’t want people knowing my personal business/medical conditions I dont want to know anyone else’s. The facts are we all have things going on in our lives and a little bit of give and take goes a long way. The shear number of ND people, all with differing requirements could mean employers simply can’t absorb the cost of this alone and the expectation of NT employees will be too much and in itself unfair.

The facts are we all have things going on in our lives and a little bit of give and take goes a long way.

This is true, but I bet many of us have had colleagues or managers, who don't necessarily give a bit of flexibility, but just expect things to be done their way. Thinking about accessibility is often helpful to everyone. Yesterday, I gave feedback on a document where someone had decided to put white text on pink boxes on a flowchart. It would be easier for everyone if that colour combination is changed, not just people who don't have great eyesight, but as it currently is, those with poor eyesight will find it particularly challenging.

These little things are really important and cause no extra work to anyone.

And yet still not everyone does it.

Is it this more of the 'identity' trend, a bit like preferred pronouns?

We either want disabled people off benefits and into work or we don’t.

That's a rather bold statement. I can't say I see much evidence for it.

Yesterday, I gave feedback on a document where someone had decided to put white text on pink boxes on a flowchart. It would be easier for everyone if that colour combination is changed, not just people who don't have great eyesight, but as it currently is, those with poor eyesight will find it particularly challenging.

If only there were guidelines, eh ?

https://www.interaction-design.org/literature/article/guidelines-for-good-visual-information-representations

I think you’re stretching the idea of “guidelines” a bit. There are guidelines for accessible visuals available if you want to look for them but the vast majority will follow their own organisations look and feel (as well as going off grid with some random pink and white)

I can’t imagine you’re going to get very far challenging someone on why they’re not following the interaction design foundations guidelines for visual information, anyway

🙋‍♀️

I have autism, and recurrent piles that don't go away with topical treatments and have had to have them rubber band ligated several times over the course of the past 6 years.

I had to go through the whole rigmarole with work, but because it has had a substantial and significant impact on my ability to function, needing additional breaks when using the bathroom due to pain and bleeding, extended sickness leave when having the procedure, reduced capacity for output when on pain relief etc it was declared as protected as a disability.

I don't think its offensive to say that it can be classed as a disability but it isn't automatically a disability in the same way autism or adhd are, as part of the diagnostic criteria for autism and adhd is that it needs to have a substantial impact on day to day functioning and be present from childhood whereas many people can cope with OTC topical treatments or a singular instance of surgery.

It is a little bit offensive when people assume piles can't be classed as a disability at all though.

Also as a ND person, I don't know why more employers aren't using programmes and systems that literally take the notes for you in presentations and meetings.

It's all well and good saying it's more work, it spirals, but not looking at other solutions when there are genuinely solutions available out there. It's a refusal to adapt to make things more accessible for everyone.

I have spent over 20 years banging the drum for all the websites I have worked on to comply with W3C guidelines on accessibility.

https://www.labscape.co.uk/bobby_testing.htm

The current state of the web tells you how well that went.

The service being punted by the NHS for GP contact won't even run on an iPad (which is a tool of choice for many less able people). Apparently they aren't worth fixing the app for, or so they say when i contacted them.

I am not ND, but these things also annoy me. I missed something important? Then don’t bloody well put it in the 3rd paragraph of a densely worded email. I swear people need to be taught how to write emails.

My emails look very different to my colleagues - concise, clear and action points are front and centre. I am hoping that my style will be adopted a colleague at a time!

I have spent over 20 years banging the drum for all the websites I have worked on to comply with W3C guidelines on accessibility.

I do find it odd. Back in the last century, when I did CompSci at uni, we had a module on human computer interaction, which went into some detail about text and colour combinations that are more easily read, and covered things like visual issues, starting with colour blindness. But 8n most cases, you can just look at it, and think, can I read thst st a glance? No, so I need to change it.

And yet there are many websites and apps, where it appears no one has ever looked at it to see if it's functional for even an averagely capable user, let alone someone with visual or other challenges.

And yet there is no point to a document, website, whatever, that no one reads because it's just too much of a cognitive challenge, so if you're doing the work, it makes sense to want to make it user-friendly.