A pass is a pass? GCSE

[Rumplestiltz]

At GCSE, a 4 is a pass. When employers/apprenticeships/further and higher education institutes ask for a pass in maths and English, it’s a 4.

So why the fuss about “strong” passes, which is a 5? Why does the Government organise its data on the proportion who get “strong” passes in English and Maths? Bridget Phillipson saying it’s a travesty that white, working class boys aren’t getting “strong” passes in English and Maths and their life chances are affected as a result. It kind of undermines those who work very hard to get to that pass line of a 4 (teachers and students) to be told it’s not good enough.

I am sure I will be told it’s very easy to get a 4 etc etc, but for some kids in these subjects, it isn’t.

So my AIBU is - a pass is a pass.

Similar for us. How many people can sit and write a fully formed story in 45 minutes? It will need to be engaging, but not too bonkers. Original. Have well developed character and setting. Use a full range of punctuation, accurately.
Or write letter/ article/ review in 20 minutes?
How many people lack basic comprehension skills on here, let alone dense texts they need to analyse?
And yet the most important skill in English, oracy, doesn't even count, thanks to Gove!

Nice! Does it matter whether they are 16 or they are redoing maths for the third time at 18? That’s still lots of children/young adults who can’t achieve the grade 4.

There are many children and adults who haven’t passed maths. I’m disputing the posts saying it’s ’easy to pass and most children do’.

Now if you’re kindly implying my maths is shit because the definition of ‘most’ is any figure over 50 then fine. Be that person. I got a B so not great but enough to go to Uni. I also have a huge amount of empathy for the 40% who don’t pass and don’t find it easy. Whatever age they are. And you can’t teach empathy or do a test for it. Something you are completely lacking…

The statistics at this point in the curve are quite complicated, because 4s and 5s are results that are possible both for the Foundation papers (capped at a 5) and Higher papers. So considering it as a simple bell curve is unlikely to be wholly accurate.

I think you will find that my posts are in support of the idea that ‘a 4 in GCSE’ is not equivalent to ‘can do all the maths required in daily life and in all but the most specific of workplaces’ - so very much on your side.

I apologise that in this one in particular gave the opposite impression.

@cantkeepawayforever are those that don't take GCSEs counted in official statistics?
My daughter has just done ASDAN exams. We haven't received the official results yet but her teachers said it looked like she has done excellent.
But will she count in the "didn't get grade 4 or above GCSE stats"?

ASDAN won’t count in school statistics no. Some gcse equivalents can be counted, but very few.

But when they say something like "X % of 16 year olds didn't get any GCSEs above a grade 3" are those that don't even sit them get counted?
I vaguely remember being told that with the Yr 6 SATS all the pupils in a class results count towards the league tables even if a child doesn't take them.
There was one boy in my daughters primary with learning disabilities and he didn't take the SATS. Does his "zero score" get counted?

I think you would have to examine the ‘what 100% would be’ very carefully.

Certainly a child with ASDAN would not be included in the ‘100%’ for GCSE results data: the 100% is ‘the total number of children entered for that exam’. Whether they might later be included in a much wider data set where 100% is ‘every young person born between x date and y date a year later, and currently ordinarily resident’ is moot, as there is no perfect way of capturing all relevant people. The census would probably be the closest.

You are right for SATs, though, because if SATs are to have any meaning at all, it is important for school comparison that schools cannot inflate their results by excluding likely lower performers from taking the tests.

It depends, schools can request individual students be removed from statistics, but the LEA or DfE for academies I guess will make the decision. In the past my school has had a fairly able child who dropped out of school and went to an alternative provision removed but had a child with an EHCP who could not access any GCSEs as his verbal ability was so limited he could only really put 3 words together included, and that was the same year so the same decision maker.

Schools will state X % achieved and only included those entered in the stats they quote on social media and on their website, but have limited control over P8 and A8 scores that are used in league tables, those use all children unless removed from stats, so a child who got no gcse passes will have a negative impact on league tables.

Yeah SATs are such a load of baloney 🙁

I would be gutted if my kids got a 4! Imagine studying for years and getting a 4. What was the point? That isn't going to get them anywhere in life and unless they have SEN then they really shouldn't be getting 4s should they?

Do you know what? You're lucky.
But totally insensitive.

I was over the moon on Thursday with my 20yo DD's grade 4 in maths, her first GCSE at 4+.

Furthermore, getting a 4 can very much help them get further in life. Have you bothered to read the thread?

Again: 30% of students are destined to get below a 4, because that is the way the mark scheme is designed.

If your child is above the 30th centile compared with their cohort, and does not encounter other issues such as the teacher shortage; illness, mental or physical; bereavement; trauma, then yes, they are likely to score a 4 or more.

It is not a matter of ‘shouldn’t be getting a 4’. 30% of the cohort MUST get below a 4, and do not deserve your disdain for doing so.

Imagine being so obnoxiousthat you have sneer,over other kids achievements.
I'd be gutted if one of my kids was like that
I don't think you have any idea about SEN either.

Well done to your daughter I have read your threads over the years you must be very proud of her, my sons in a similar position

Yes..... studying for years and years and it's all down to an hour or so in an exam hall doing an exam paper.
Hayfever, period pain, a headache or granny passing away the night before and those previous 12 years of knowledge was all for nothing?

@cantkeepawayforever 48.4% of boys and 60.2% of girls got 5+ in GCSE English Language in year 11 in England in 2025.
For Maths the figures are 54% boys and 51.5% girls.
So an overall majority (just) and clearly a huge gender gap in English.
Source: JCQ results data table 9a.

Thanks! Need to dive deeper into the world of GCSE data!

Its the difference between scraping a pass by luck and having some genuine understanding

Nice of MN to leave up posts denigrating the hard won achievements of children, while deleting mine calling them out for it

I stand by my previous remarks -anyone who chooses to tear down the achievements of children for whom a 4 is a massive success, betrays themselves as a mean spirited arsehole who should check their privilege.

I can’t imagine that someone’s life path is ruined by getting a pass grade in maths GCSE to be honest. Unless their ambition is to do maths or science A levels, in which case it would be a blow. For the majority of children it opens up an awful lot of opportunities from 16 onwards. Surely you have the insight to understand that?

You told another poster to fuck off.

That's why your post got deleted.

What a horrible attitude to have.