A pass is a pass? GCSE

[Rumplestiltz]

At GCSE, a 4 is a pass. When employers/apprenticeships/further and higher education institutes ask for a pass in maths and English, it’s a 4.

So why the fuss about “strong” passes, which is a 5? Why does the Government organise its data on the proportion who get “strong” passes in English and Maths? Bridget Phillipson saying it’s a travesty that white, working class boys aren’t getting “strong” passes in English and Maths and their life chances are affected as a result. It kind of undermines those who work very hard to get to that pass line of a 4 (teachers and students) to be told it’s not good enough.

I am sure I will be told it’s very easy to get a 4 etc etc, but for some kids in these subjects, it isn’t.

So my AIBU is - a pass is a pass.

I still don't really think it's comparable - that said, while I am actually in the Scottish system, I understand that a 4 is definitely a pass. I suppose a student who wants to study that subject at A level, or if it's a subject considered essential for A levels in general, might be disappointed with a 4 (especially if working at/predicted a higher grade). It's all relative, like everything in life - I do wish les emphasis was put on exam results tbh, because there are definitely more ways to success in life!

Totally agree, this world needs lots of different people doing lots of different things

having lots of gcses also doesn't equal able to do A levels.

I have 10 gcses at C and above and an IQ of 138, and 0 A levels... they were too academically intense for me.
I know so many people that aced their GCSE's then floundered at A level and ended up changing tack to BTEC's and other Vocational education.

Especially as they kept A/B etc for A levels anyways.

I'm so sorry for your/your son's experience. It's very possible he could resit his subject as a private candidate. We have experience of this if you'd like to know how it works.
It's awful they couldn't make any better provision for him. One of my kids was one of those whose grades were guessed at because of COVID and I know schools have got better with keeping evidence of their potential grade as a result, so of course it should be possible.

Have you met with the college and explained the circumstances? They may have wiggle room we've found what the local colleges list in their brochures and what they can accept for a motivated student are very different. The course tutor/leader with be much more adept as gauging this than general admissions.
I don't think it's unusual for a student who is gifted in maths and sciences to struggle with pain English or one gifted in essay based subjects to struggle with maths.

It absolutely is.

Nonsense.
A U is a fail.

Surely it’s not hard to see that different 16+ settings have different entry criteria, even two schools? It’s an age where many schools choose to get selective for results. My own old school had higher entry requirements than other local schools so some of my friends had to go elsewhere for their A levels. It’s nothing new.

I know!
I was trying to say below grade four isn't a level2 pass ,but it's still a pass .

Grade 5 in Maths and English.

Presumably that’s not surprising though?

Foundation papers are for children who don’t have a realistic prospect of being able to answer the more difficult questions on the standard paper and therefore the questions are easier overall.

If the pass mark for the foundation paper were not significantly higher than for the standard paper, there would be no purpose in having foundation papers.

Yes, it means they got 50-60% on a paper which strips out all the harder questions from the standard paper. Or, to say it differently, they sat a deliberately easy exam and still got nearly half of it wrong. I find it hard to see how that’s not a concerning result for a child without additional needs.

Your comparison to the pass mark for a university degree is not valid. The pass mark for an exam doesn’t tell you anything about the underlying level of achievement, unless you take into account the difficulty of the exam itself.

For example, the same child could sit two papers on the exact same subject matter, one very hard and one very easy, and get 20% on the former and 80% on the latter.

Also, particularly for arts subjects, university exams aren’t really graded 1-100. 70 is a first and they generally don’t award numbers above 80.

Have you seen the standard to get a 4? It’s a low bar.

Are you aware that some people have special educational needs?

What do we want from a pass in maths though? If we want to ensure a level of lifelong numeracy then passing a paper with 'the harder stuff stripped out' is fine, as the harder stuff tends not to be maths that people need for their daily lives.This is where I mentally come back to every time I try to figure out what the actual objective of maths teaching is for the majority of children in the country.

I looked at DC's end of year 9 maths test and there was material in there I didn't do at GCSE. For a child that has no interest in maths beyond how to calculate and measure, what is the introduction of this at such an early stage achieving? It's causing my child to panic, disengage, and fear maths lessons to be honest. We'd be much better off with more functional life maths for children who are highly unlikely to consider Maths at A level.

Why do you think it's concerning ?
I never passed my maths GCSE and yet somehow i appear to have made it to the age of nearly 52 relatively unscathed
I also managed to train as a nurse ( no longer working as a nurse ) without it most of what is taught in maths is never used in real life.
Obviously everybody needs basic skills but even the foundation paper goes way beyond the basics.

It is not a paper which strips out all the harder questions from the standard paper. Nor is it a deliberately easy exam.

The higher paper is a higher paper, not 'the standard paper', there's a clue in the name.

If you think the foundation papers are so very easy, why don't you go and do past papers for 9 different subjects, and pop back and tell us how you got on? Then we can all tell you that you haven't really achieved anything and in fact barely function at a most basic level.

The nasty denigration of what for a significant number of children is a huge achievement and for a significant number more is something they will never be capable of achieving, is a deeply unpleasant window into some people's characters.

It is a rubbish grading system. DGS has just got 6 x 9s, 8 x 8s and 1 x 7. Are they all As and A*s? Who knows.
And if we spend our time asking which numbers are letters might we not have done better to leave the letters as they were which everyone seemed to understand?

They are all 7s, 8s and 9s. Letter grades no longer exist. They are irrelevant. But if you’d looked at the thread at all you would know that, yes, they are equivalent to the now non existent As and A*s.

My workplace requires a 5 in English and maths for office jobs, but lower grades are accepted for trade apprentices (and presumably, fully qualified craftspeople with relevent qualifications and experience, but I haven't read any job descriptions for those for a while).

Before a pass was a pass. This strong pass is just confusing and pointless

Those people who are employers who are saying they need people to have 5s... would you really not employ someone with A levels/other Level 3 qualifications, 7 gcses at 6/7s... but a 4 in English? (Which is a likely hood for my DD...)

It may be to you. Lucky you.

My DD has birth parents who both have an IQ under 80, one has a verbal processing disorder and the other a personality disorder. Intelligence is mostly genetic, and that's leaving aside the life long impact of the trauma she had inflicted on her while she was a baby and toddler. Her 4 in maths is a massive achievement for her.

I hope you feel better about yourself now you've characterised what is a huge achievement for her as a 'low bar'. Check your fucking privilege.

A 4 will be a good achievement for some children, particularly some with additional needs or extenuating circumstances.

However, if your contention is that a 4 represents most children living up to their potential, then that’s just incorrect. It’s not nasty to be honest with children about when they have performed below their potential, it’s part of being a responsible parent and preparing them for the real world.

We shouldn’t set unrealistic standards for our children but paucity of ambition helps nobody.

She did 15 GCSEs 😱
Wow.
(and congratulations to her)