A pass is a pass? GCSE

[Rumplestiltz]

At GCSE, a 4 is a pass. When employers/apprenticeships/further and higher education institutes ask for a pass in maths and English, it’s a 4.

So why the fuss about “strong” passes, which is a 5? Why does the Government organise its data on the proportion who get “strong” passes in English and Maths? Bridget Phillipson saying it’s a travesty that white, working class boys aren’t getting “strong” passes in English and Maths and their life chances are affected as a result. It kind of undermines those who work very hard to get to that pass line of a 4 (teachers and students) to be told it’s not good enough.

I am sure I will be told it’s very easy to get a 4 etc etc, but for some kids in these subjects, it isn’t.

So my AIBU is - a pass is a pass.

I looked at one earlier to check I wasn’t off base.

80% of the paper was basic algebra, arithmetic and simple fractions, with a few questions on trigonometry and statistics added on top.

I stand by my statement that if somebody at 16 isn’t getting most of that right then it’s a concern.

Tell the Government that. They are the ones who decided on a system where 30% have to "fail" to keep the exam fair.

If the number of children passing increases everyone screams foul of them dumbing down the exam. Kuds can't win!

It's not just the maths, but the speed in which you have to do it. It's 30 years since my C grade (higher paper!) And I spend a ridiculous amount of my time working out ratios and percentages and interrogating data. But when I'm invigilating a maths mock, I like to pick up a paper.

Now granted, if I were doing maths every day I might be quicker. But my brain takes a while to work out maths stuff and I know I'd struggle today under exam conditions. I can knock out a tv review or an article or letter my my MP (regularly) i. minutes, but that's kind of my job.

Thank you. Yes we have spoken with the college and the head of department for his first choice course but they aren’t interested, if he’s not got the specified grade thats it, end of story as far as they are concerned.

DS seems happy with his alternative choice and the tutors for the alternative were all really lovely guys and it still ties in with his first choice. He’s going to resit his English alongside then if he gets the grade he needed he has the choice next year to either continue onto the higher level of this course (which doesn’t even require english) or move onto the course he originally planned.

With regards to the very disappointing GCSE mark, his teacher is requesting the transcripts of how they came up with his grade to see if she can find ground for appeal (fingers crossed). But yes if you could provide the information about the private resits that would be appreciated, its something we’d definitely be open to looking at.

What do you suggest thsnn?
If kids can't learn the way they are taught than maybe they need to be taught a different way ?
And just becsuse you find algebra simple doesn't mean everyone does .

My DD got a D (now 3) in maths and was made to retake it 3 times with exactly the same result. When a fourth attempt was proposed I intervened and said for heavens sake she's a D, just leave her be!

She now has an BA from a Russell Group uni, followed by an MA. Sometimes colleges and unis just need to accept that some people do not have mathematical skills and not cut off their opportunities in other areas because of this.

I agree with you but how did she get into university without a grade C in maths?
I'm not doubting you I just thought it was a prerequisite?

DH failed all but 1 of his GCSEs (undiagnosed dyslexia). He went to Uni after taking a college course in the subject and the grades from that springboarded him in.

It's possible - this is a BA so probably not maths heavy.
Even so, I think most people are capable of understanding the maths/numeracy that is applicable to their job role or area of study, as it becomes a necessary skill that has a concrete application rather than it being an arbitrary and abstract thing whose sole purpose appears to be jumping through the hoop of answering questions, switching between lots of different maths competencies in a limited amount of time.

My dh was the same. Didn't get maths GCSE but has a computer science degree and a very successful career. It's not his role but he has a reputation within the company for being good at spreadsheets and people will come to him if they're struggling to get a formula right.

My DD got her Russell Group place many years ago and it looks as though the rules might have been different then. He lack of maths GCSE was never even mentioned. Her excellence in her subject spoke for itself and it would have been unacceptable if her skills and potential had gone undeveloped just because her maths ability was poor.

I completely agree, hopefully things will change.

When was the last time you used algebra? Or needed to multiply fractions, or work out the angles of a triangle or the area of rhombus? Mines not since 1991 when I got my B in GCSE maths. The only reason I needed to know that stuff, was to pass GCSE maths. The only worth of that GCSE to me was as a ticket to A levels (not in maths or sciences!), it has no value or use to me in itself, the majority of what I learned I've forgotten and don't miss or need.

Children with no interest or aptitude for maths not being able to perform like seals isn't a concern. We all have access to a calculator and the internet on hand all the time anyway. The content of a GCSE maths syllabus is only useful to someone who wants to do A level maths, the practical maths we all use in day to day life is primary school level maths.

A maths GCSE has no intrinsic value and is not a measure of intelligence or worth, it's a measure of aptitude for a certain type of rote learning, and a measure of memory and the ability to perform under pressure.

Agreed I never managed to pass my maths GCSE ,and I'm 52 in a couple of months somehow I seem to be a fully functioning adult .

58% got a 4 or better so no, most children do not get higher than a 4.

No only for certain courses.

Exactly. Most children would mean 90% or more….

And how sad that the system is designed that a certain amount have to fail whatever…

Whoever is saying that most children get higher than a 4 needs to go back to a basic understanding of statistics and bell curves.

I think it is hard to tell from the data published so far whether most Y11s (as in ‘over 50%’) get ‘more than a 4’, interpreted as ‘a 5 or more’ in GCSE Maths.

The data is obscured by the very high number of retakes, who have all previously got 3 or less and thus skew the data by inserting a high number of exam takers at the lower end of the bell curve.

It is possible that the data for Y11s only, at 5 and above - rather than 4 and above - is published for previous exam series?

There is also the point that a proportion of the age group do not take the qualification- Special School pupils; HE children; students who take iGCSE etc.

Most 16 year olds do get a 4 or above in Maths or English. The overall rate is reduced by the high numbers doing resits. The table doesn't give the % getting above a 4 though.

Er - mathematically and in common parlance, most = more than half.

‘The vast majority’ has no mathematical meaning but might be intended to mean 90% or more.

Maybe we do need a ‘general numeracy qualification’, focused only on the Maths genuinely used in daily life…

Image didn't paste so here is a link. https://ffteducationdatalab.org.uk/2025/08/gcse-results-2025-the-main-trends-in-grades-and-entries/
Xpost with @cantkeepawayforever

Thanks! So nearly 72% of Y11s who sat GCSEs got 4 or above in Maths this year, with the predetermined 30% ish falling below the politically-influenced cutoff.

We do not (yet?) know what proportion got ‘more than a 4’, so 5+, and whether this is ‘over 50%’ in order to constitute ‘most’.

I think it is easy to look at foundation maths and think 'how can a 16yo not do that' until you see the kind of difficulties they have and the mistakes they make. Then it becomes all too easy to see why they may fail to get 60% over 4.5hrs of maths, especially if sitting 8 or 9 other subjects too.

I'll be ecstatic if DS2 gets a 4 in Maths...A 4 is a C grade and a pass. He's not wanting to do A levels anyway. Not all kids are academic - doesn't mean they have nothing to strive for.