MIL, advice/help/AIBU about my DC.

[Talkingthingsthrough]

Hi, not a regular poster, hope I’m in the right place. Sorry it is a long one…if you manage to read through, thank you.

I have been with my DH 10 years, we had our DD in 2022, a matter of weeks after she was born my relationship with my MIL became awful, she expected time with my DD constantly, she never turned up at our door luckily but if she hadn’t seen her (or I hadn’t sent any pictures in the family whatssap group) in a day or 2, her attitude towards me became cold.

To give a bit of context, we’ve always been close, before I had my DD and during pregnancy she was great, I was looking forward to her being around for me and DD.
During my pregnancy MIL health was getting worse and she ended up needing a back operation, whilst working out what medication worked best for her she had spells of forgetfulness, confusion and losing balance (this still occasionally happens) which made me worry as she was going to be caring for my DD whilst I worked (I had other support from my family also) however never told her about my worries as didn’t want to upset her and instead just limited her time with DD alone(she would usually have her mother around so was not really fully alone a lot)

When DD was around 6 weeks old I got mastitis, it was the same time as my BIL (MILS youngest son) birthday, I of course couldn’t make it I was bed bound, my DM was around my house taking care of DD and letting me sleep whilst antibiotics kicked in and my DH worked. My MIL was noticeably annoyed with me that my DM was looking after DD and I hadn’t asked her. Even more annoyed that I didn’t go to the birthday meal for my BIL. She has a good way of letting you know she is annoyed with you such as ignoring messages or one word answers etc posting sly things on social media without saying things outright, this kind of behaviour would trigger my anxiety.

There were a lot more episodes of this kind of thing via messages but the worst thing was is that MIL was clearly talking to family members about how she was feeling, she is very manipulative when needed, I’ve witnessed this over the years… she can turn on any family member at any time if they go against her.
And so, whenever I did go to see her with my DD (I made sure to go with DD on my own after her op so she never missed time with her, she would treat me nicely then and that would be it) she would make sure she got to hold DD which was of course is fine I had no issues as long as I got her back when she needed to breastfeed, MIL would sit with her back to me so I couldn’t see DD, she would leave the room with her even if she was upset and never ever passed her back to me I would have to ask for her back or ask my DH to get her for me, around this time I felt completely isolated and the family clearly felt sorry for MIL who was desperately needing time with DD despite my needs as a brand new first time mam needing my newborn close, this behaviour started from DD being 8 days old.

She also oversteps boundaries often and does things without asking such as sending a letter from Santa last Christmas to our home (things she knows I planned to do that mothers usually want to do for their children.)

I was always told “just eat your dinner/tea, relax and I’ll take care of DD, just sit back this is your time” I didn’t want free time I wanted my newborn baby… Everytime I went over this kind of situation occurred, it triggered me and my protective instincts came out in the end I hated MIL holding DD it would make me feel anxious and sick not knowing when I could have her back. Family members would get my DD then quickly pass her over to MIL and I would be too scared to ask for her back.

And now, even though since DD was 1 year old MIL has had her every Wednesday morning, Thursday evenings she comes over our house to do bath and bed routine and every Sunday we are around her from 1:30-6:30pm, as well as sometimes seeing her more often than this, I still sometimes feel bothered when she has DD as I never know what mood she is in and if she will text me with updates at all, I don’t expect much maybe 1 picture or a text with how she’s been. I don’t let DD sleep out often as I don’t like to be away from her too long on my days off but when she has slept there in the past there’s been communication issues where MIL “forgets her phone” or something of this sort.

Eventually things came to a head when DD was coming up to her 1st birthday and we had a conversation at my home with my DH and FIL present, initially she denied things and played victim(she regularly does this with her own DCs) however after seeing how visibly upset I was and me pointing out clear facts as to how she has behaved and knowing it was coming between me and DH, DH did stand up for me completely but I don’t think he realised until this point how badly she was affecting me and my mental health. MIL did end up tearful and apologised, hugged me and promised she’d never make me feel like that again.

I have really worked on things and I feel we are back in a really good place, she has a great relationship with DD and can be supportive of me too, I realise though that whenever I decline a visit or I make other plans things can go sour for a little bit. I generally though enjoy spending time with her and feel happy with how things are, I have had to put the past in the past, I am a naturally forgiving easygoing person but this really pushed me to my limits.

My issue is I am now pregnant with DC2 and am dreading this behaviour restarting. I am hoping to find a way to not feel so anxious and to lean into MIL for support without feeling anxious that she is going to turn into what she did last time, I can’t have another maternity leave like last time it did ruin a lot of memories for me as I was constantly on edge and feeling sick with anxiety about seeing her and essentially having to “give my baby up” until it suited her. I know she’ll have DD to give attention to also so this may help things.
MIL has said to me recently she can’t wait for us to have another LO and this time she promises they “won’t be as OTT as last time”…. She is already excited about this pregnancy and has already asked me about my birthing plans and tried to pressure me into a home birth etc and I just feel she is very full on considering it is so early on.
I feel like I have some sort of PTSD about it all and am already imagining scenarios of when I have my 2nd child and it is draining me!

Sorry this is so long, I just want some advice or to know if anyone else has gone through this, am I being unreasonable with my feelings about this? I don’t want a 2nd maternity leave ruined feeling sick with anxiety about her behaviour, any tips on how I can focus my attention elsewhere if this does occur again would be great.
We are getting along fab but I never know when her mood will take a turn if I decide to have more time at home after DC2 is born this time around and she feels pushed out or whatever….

Before becoming a grandmother i would probably have given you a different answer....maybe advising to set boundaries and communicate well.
But since becoming a grandmother, I have absolutely no patience for people like you MIL.
The number one thing that's in your children's best interests is that their main caregiver feels strong, supported, mentally well. And that the parents relationship is good.
That's the most important thing. So anyone who sabotages any of that, isn't acting in the child's best interests.
A grandparents role is important, and can be a wonderful addition to a child's life.
But anything that causes distress to the child's parents, is too big a price to pay.

So I guess I'm saying, put yourself first, stop trying to pacify this woman. And recognise that she's putting her own needs ahead of her grandchildren.

You have a dh problem. He needs to understand they are your children. Not his mums. He needs to speak to her and put firm boundaries in. He needs to tell her to stop playing games.
He needs to realise that longterm this will be bad for your relationship and your children
I had the same with my mil. First child I didnt know how to stand my ground . But I soon learned.

I didnt let my children stay with them or be unsupervised. But thats due to several probelms they had that meant it was not safe too.
Having such a strick routine with her weekly sounds awful.

New phone number and she doesn't get to have it. Let her give off steam/moan /bitch to dh. He needs to be your gatekeeper imo.
My ils never had my mobile number and wow it made for a much less stressful life.. Your mil is nuts BTW. She sees you all waaaay more than you should be accepting of.

I feel so sorry for you. Unfortunately you will have to "teach" your Mil that the more she is unreasonable with you the less you will want to see her and therefore the less she gets to see dgc.
My Mil is lovely, like the first poster who responded. She has been like a mother for me caring as much for me as for my children (my mum is dead). She's a godsend and my sons love her and have a really strong bond with her which is beautiful.

Don't feel guilty for going lc with her, you need to protect yourself in order to be strong for your children. Talk to your DH about setting up boundaries so that you have a united front.

@potoftea
thank you for your advice I’m going to remind myself of this, it is a relief to hear from someone who is a grandparent themselves that her behaviour isn’t right.

@Starlight7080
you’re right it can be draining at times I wish I didn’t have a schedule as such, but here we are!
My DH has always had a problem standing up to his DM, however I must say that since things came to a head he is definitely a lot better, long may it continue…
I’m keen to know how you learned to stand up for yourself and how that went initially? I feel scared at the thought although I will do this if I need to this time.

@Campingisnexttogodliness
that is one of the first things I said to her when we had this huge conversation about our problems, I said she sees DD more than any other family member (bare in mind I am very close to my own DM and have siblings and other relatives I am close to) so to lower her expectations of me.
I wish I could do the whole change number thing but honestly I think that would make things a whole lot worse for me, she also lives very close to me and looks after DD one morning a week so I would need communication at this time from her.

@arcticpandas
thank you for your sympathy, you’re lucky to have a MIL like that, I almost feel
guilty for my post because like I said myself and MIL can and do get on great especially if it is just general chat or whatever, she praises me as a mother, gives advice, offers support and you’d never think we had problems before, however I know that is because I keep her sweet with all the time she gets with DD and I barely cancel on her, she is more likely to cancel on me.
I think I am just in total panic over the new baby coming along and her going back to the expectation of being around even more than she is, taking the kids to “give me a break” that I never needed and just acting like when she is around that she is entitled to hold the baby for hours until we go home or they leave… she used to huff if I decided to leave earlier on a Sunday and it was just relentless.

Why are you scared of her?

What do you think is going to happen if you hold your arms out and say "baby is coming back to mummy now"?

@GabriellaMontez
Im not scared of her, it is a case of if she feels upset she can be really awkward and it gives me anxiety quite badly, I will be asking for baby back this time around I am just anticipating the sulky faces, eye rolls and then ignorance towards me for wanting baby back, I will do it I just feel anxious at the thought of her reactions, nobody would say anything to her they all side with her, if they don’t she can make your life miserable, trust me. I suppose I just needed to hear I’m not wrong or crazy and some tips on how to manage things if it is to go the same way as it has in the past.

Honestly, you have made a rod for your own back by agreeing to spend so much time with your MIL every week. She has basically been rewarded for her pushy and cruel behaviour towards you after your DD was born.

Decide how much contact suits you once you have a new born and your DD to look after and don't be bullied into anything that doesn't feel comfortable for you. Don't let your MIL take over with your DD under the guise of giving you time with your new baby as you don't want your DD to feel pushed out.

You need to discuss this with your DH and make sure that he supports you. Your MIL ruined your early experience of being a mum with your DD so you need to make sure that this doesn't happen again.

@thepariscrimefiles
you hit the nail on the head there, I am definitely going to have to make new rules/routines once baby is born, I spend as much time with my DD as I can and am definitely not looking to have her taken away so I can spend time with baby, we need to bond together first and adjust as a family of 4.
I will discuss with DH to make sure he is clear beforehand

I think getting DH on board is absolutely key. You see mil 3 times a week? Seems an awful lot. There’ll be no allowing her to endlessly hold the baby or take dd because you ‘need a break’ in her opinion. Set out your stall with big boundaries as soon as the baby is born, discuss minute detail with your Dh beforehand! Be strong and don’t allow her to spend more time than YOU want with the children.

I am shocked at how much you tolerate from this woman! It will be very difficult to start setting boundaries now when she has bulldozed through so much in the past, but you must. This is a classic personality type--she sulks, gives silent treatments, and essentially throws the adult version of a tantrum when she doesn't gets her way. She has everyone in the family trained to believe it is just easier to give in to her! And of course, the demands will just increase the more they are met.

The mere fact that she is already voicing opinions on your birth plan shows that nothing has changed. People who are this self-serving and manipulative are masters of turning on the water works and giving fake apologies if they feel they are backed into a corner. My mother is much like what you are describing. I can tell you with near certainty that nothing will improve unless you set major, firm boundaries; the more you give this woman her way, the more she will demand.

This woman robbed you of precious time with your firstborn child because you let her. You can never get that time back. Don't let it happen again.

In general, I'd start creating some distance. She has a history of taking ownership of moments that should be between you and your child--it will only continue if you let it. Trust me! She has been overstepping in every possible way, and she has demonstrated a consistent and complete disregard for your place as the mother. The fact that you spend more time with your MIL than your own mother is proof of the hold this woman has over you.

When your children are all grown and out of the house, will you look back and wish that you'd stood up for these special moments, even the Santa letter, etc, or will you be happy that you gave in to your MILs demands because you couldn't stand the fallout if you didn't?

I'd do some research on Narcissistic Personality Disorder and how to best respond to it.

@Cherrysoup
I agree, it is a lot. I’m not a parent who ever asks for help and to be honest I never really feel I need it as DH is a great support and I just love being a mam, she uses me needing a break as an excuse for her benefit.
I am going to be sure to set firm boundaries this time around once baby is here to just have her round when I say and want, no set times/dates, it has to be done. Thanks for the advice

So sorry this has been your experience. I totally get the anxiety about wanting your baby close by. It’s a very strong instinct. And possibly hard to understand if you haven’t been through it (or it has been a long time!) that you can both feel exhausted by the early baby days, yet want to do the majority of baby care yourself.

I agree with others, DH and yourself need to be a team and discuss both of your expectations and boundaries. Maybe it’s a good time to chat about his relationship with family on your side too? So that things feel more balanced?

I’m also a firm believer in just going and getting your baby back when you want them. There doesn’t need to be any more reason than that. During the toddler and young child phase children will have their independence and can choose to spend time, and play with who they choose too. If grandparents are only interested in the tiny baby stage, then they have strange priorities! Babies need cuddles, with their parents! Good luck!

@MyLittleNest
Wow, I’m so sorry if this is the way your own mother is as you have described MIL to a tee.
I think that’s why I’m so anxious about things and equally internally angry as I resent her for the way she treat me, I just believe people deserve second chances, I just need to set and stick to boundaries going forward and not let her dictate.
Ive said for quite a while to DH that she is a narcissist, I think it has finally gotten through to him in recent months but that is nothing to do with mine and her relationship it’s other things she has done and said to DH, so thankfully this time around I should have complete back up should I need it.
Thanks for your advice

"she had spells of forgetfulness, confusion and losing balance (this still occasionally happens)"

Would you hire a professional caregiver who had spells of forgetfulness, confusion, and losing balance?

"even though since DD was 1 year old MIL has had her every Wednesday morning, Thursday evenings she comes over our house to do bath and bed routine and every Sunday we are around her from 1:30-6:30pm, as well as sometimes seeing her more often than this, "

So she's doing childcare despite having these spells. She's giving a young toddler a bath and she has occasional neuro issues. You would rather have an unfit caregiver for your daughter than tell her no because you're afraid she'll whine to family and do what else?

Let her get mad. She has a spell in the bathroom and your kid has a slip and fall and then you'll all be sorry because you knew but did nothing because you were afraid of her hurt feelings and reaction. You're prioritizing your mil's feelings over your child's physical safety.

Your MIL is overbearing and trying to be the main parent. Stop letting her. So she gets mad. You have the power. This is your child, not hers. Right now your husband has seen her and backed her off a tiny bit. He needs to set some really strong boundaries.

Here's one.

No more childcare until she gets these spells checked and gets medical treatment and they resolve. Surely your MIL cares about your child's safety.

@pg1
Yes I had such strong instincts, I was happy for anyone to hold DD I just needed her back every now and again but felt trapped when it came to MIL she would hog DD and not give her back until I either needed to breastfeed or leave. Sometimes I would plan DD feed in when I was with MIL so I knew I could get her back, looking back it is so sad I felt I had to do that :(

I have been discussing with DH this evening and he has said this time we know what to do we need to be a team etc, I am sure he knows this time around I’m not prepared to put up with any BS.
Fortunately for me, my family are actually no bother, they see you when they see you, they are supportive whenever we need them and they never push anything on us, DH agrees to this he wishes his family were more like mine.

Because of the time I allow MIL to spend with DD they have a great bond which I am pleased about of course, so hopefully DD will still need attention from her to play and be silly with and baby is left to be with and bond with me, DH and other family rather than stuck on MIL for hours, at newborn stage they just want their parents as you say so I won’t allow it this time

@outerspacepotato
I see where you are coming from, I have never witnessed MILs issues in person, she has told me in a joking manner here and there things that she has done and then will say “it’s because I hadn’t taken my tablets yet” or in the past it was “they’re still working out my meds”
She always seems 100% in health when I see her so I have no proof/evidence to say she’s unfit.
She has my DD with her mam as they live next door to eachother, so she is hardly alone with DD. When at my house for bath routine I am always around and FIL comes too, sometimes auntie comes also.
I would never risk my child’s health if I thought for one second she was a danger.
You are right about DH I am sure once baby is here he will be prepared to keep the boundaries I set clear to MIL.

I’m so sorry that you are going through this. I just wanted to post as our situations are spookily similar, it’s almost as if I could have written it. My MIL would follow me when I breastfed DD1 so that she could take her when she was finished. She said it was to keep me company and at the time I thought she was helping but looking back I wish I’d kept hold of DD as it made me feel like I was just a milking machine.

I have also recently had my second DC and despite saying how we felt with first DC, PILs behaviour still didn’t improve. Things came to a head a second time and since then I’ve been very low contact with them. DH and I have agreed on boundaries and how often we’ll see them.

I’m a people pleaser and whilst it has been hard to put in boundaries and not let someone manipulate or guilt trip you into doing what they want, it has been so refreshing and freeing to know that you don’t have to give into them and to put yourself and your family first.

Good luck!

I find posts like this difficult to read. While I totally empathise with you and completely validate your feelings, you and your DH need to step up and be firm with your expectations and boundaries. Nobody will advocate for your mental wellbeing but you. Same as your baby- if your baby needs a feed they need a feed, end of no discussion, take baby back and who cares if MIL is 'upset'. She's manipulating you, you already know this and her 'upset" feelings aren't genuine.

I'm sorry if that sounded in any way like tough love- genuinely I really feel for you because this has gone on for a long time now but consider baby no.2 as a new chapter with how you are going to deal with MIL and set your boundaries now- the first place I'd be starting is distancing myself via message and visits- perhaps cut down to 1 visit per week eg the Sunday. Be firm in how you communicate eg. 'Hi MIL, we are only available on Sunday next week- does that suit you for a visit? If not we'll catch up the following week'.

I wish you the best of luck, it's really tough but you'll thank yourself down the line 💐

OP, the line that stood out in your post is “the family clearly felt sorry for MIL who was desperately needing time with DD”. Sorry, since when does a MIL NEED time with a new baby? She may like it; she may want it, but she certainly doesn’t need it. You have allowed your MIL to become very involved - there is no way she should have been “noticeably annoyed with me that my DM was looking after DD and I hadn’t asked her.” As for sitting with her back to you and leaving the room even when the baby was upset - what sort of selfish monster is she? And why did you let her go off with your DD when the baby was upset? Remember, OP, you are your baby’s best advocate, and don’t ever be guilted/embarrassed/manipulated into not being. If your baby is upset, she wants her mother, not her needy and entitled Grandmother. I can’t believe you let her see more of your baby than your own DM, and when you say that if you ask for your own baby, you get “sulky faces, eye rolls and then ignorance towards me for wanting baby back”, that is outrageous - and should be ignored. OP, DON’T stand for it. The fact that you’re worrying before this baby is even here, and your MIL is wittering on about a home birth (presumably so she can be involved) is frankly horrifying. You can’t carry on like this - you are going to have to get DH to have a word with her, to the effect that it’s your baby, and if she’s allowed a cuddle, then it’s a privilege, not a cue for sulks when she is asked to give the baby back, and that if she can’t accept that, then you won’t be coming round because it makes you uncomfortable. OP, having a baby is something special and it should be a lovely time for you - not something you are dreading because if your MIl’s behaviour. I write this as a MIL and a grandmother myself - she is being very selfish and uncaring of your feelings.

Good grief you’re seeing a lot of her for someone who clearly drives you up the wall…! If she starts eye rolling and being a jerk you leave - end of. So what if other relatives start gossiping. YOU are the mother - if you decide it’s not helping you, you can change it.

And if she starts messaging your husband, use that opportunity -
“why didn’t @Talkingthingsthrough want to stay/come today?”
“Well you were clearly still annoyed about the last time she cancelled as she had been getting grief from auntie X, so she decided it wouldn’t be helpful to see you until you had moved on”

I would also add that the MIL coming around to give your DD a bath once a week needs to stop soon. Your DD is already 3, almost 4? Do you want to normalize her having extended family seeing her nude on a regular basis? She is too old for this at this point, imo. It would be different if she were staying at the MILs and needed a bath, but having MIL over especially to bath a pre-school aged child just gives me the ick.

I would not let her start giving new baby a bath. Don't start any new weekly "habits."

The poster who mentioned that MIL isn't even safe to oversee bathing also raises a good point. You say that MIL is never alone with DD because of her mother? So an even older woman?

As for the great bond that DD has with MIL, it is very possible that as your DD grows up she will begin to feel smothered by your MIL's focus on her. This happened with my daughter and her overbearing grandmother. Also, my narc mother was determined to infantalize my daughter, taking great offense when DD started wanting to be with other kids or having a life of her own at school. There were numerous times as well where my narc mother tried to turn my daughter against me in an effort to be the favourite.

Five hours every Sunday is excessive. If you spent five hours every weekend with BOTH sets of grandparents, you would have no time left to be a family of three/four.

It makes me sad that your own mother sounds so much kinder and nicer and yet because your MIL demands so much and throws a fit if her "needs" aren't met, your MIL gets all this extra time with the grandchildren--and with you! I imagine your own mother could be sad about this but because she doesn't want to add demands to your time, she might keep some of that to herself...

If you were my daughter, and the other grandmother was behaving this way, I would honestly be heartbroken.

Maybe you can use this unfair time allotment as the excuse to start the conversation about new schedule, new rules, firm boundaries.