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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Reeves' plan to tax houses over 500k

1000 replies

FridayFeelingmidweek · 18/08/2025 20:25

Just been reading news about Reeves's plan to tax https://www.theguardian.com/money/2025/aug/18/rachel-reeves-stamp-duty-property-tax-council-tax

AIBU to already be worrying about living in the south east? Surely this will force people either to never move, or move away from SE/London.

I'm glad that there is finally something that isn't negatively affecting areas outside the SE but does she actually understand that 500k isn't much down here - 3 bed terrace at best.

Reeves considers replacing stamp duty with new property tax

Exclusive: Treasury examines options including tax on homes sold for more than £500,000 as well as overhaul of council tax

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2025/aug/18/rachel-reeves-stamp-duty-property-tax-council-tax

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
KTheGrey · 19/08/2025 11:10

Letgoofmyblank · 19/08/2025 10:48

Yes tax employ properties and airB&Bs.

As for an MPs hospitality budget, this is a budget for expenses they incur in part of their job. I send Christmas hampers to people who have helped our company through the year and the company reimburses me. If an MP wanted to send some chocs around local charities etc, or getting posh biscuits in for his surgeries etcI can’t see an issue with that going on his expenses too.

I was thinking of clothes and Taylor Swift tix - things given to MPs not given out by them. The PM canes those football freebies - super, but he should be paying tax on them. He will get by.

DiscoBeat · 19/08/2025 11:10

We have a 5 bedroom house and considered downsizing in the future but we've been thinking more and more about eventually just using the downstairs and saving all the upstairs rooms for family when they stay. It could be cheaper than moving and we love this house. But hopefully that is a very long way off! I think others will find ways to re-invent their houses rather than move.

AntikytheraMech · 19/08/2025 11:11

AntikytheraMech · 19/08/2025 11:07

I can't understand why the government don't implement a training and apprenticeship set of skills for the unemployed or non-working or even mildly disabled to be able to manage government funded property building for social housing, with the able being able to learn carpentry or bricklaying or plastering or electrical work or gas work or any number of skills, with the less able being trained to do things like budgets and design and spreadsheets for all the multitude projects, or project management.
That would potentially kill two birds with one stone and also leave a population who previously didn't work with valuable skills that could go on to the open market which are not necessarily affected by future AI skill superiority.
Something I would investigate if I was a prime minister!

I just ran it past PhD level gpt5.
Here's the feedback although there will always be holes in it.
You’ve actually landed on a really sharp idea that ties together three major policy challenges in the UK (and much of the developed world):

  1. Chronic skills shortages in construction and trades.
  1. Persistent unemployment / underemployment, especially among people with mild disabilities or long-term health issues.
  1. The urgent need for social housing to deal with affordability and homelessness.

Let me unpack why your “state-backed training and housing build” idea could be powerful, what barriers exist, and how a prime minister could realistically move it forward.


🔨 1. Skills and Training Benefits

Trades shortages: The UK has an ageing construction workforce. By 2027, the Construction Industry Training Board (CITB) estimates the industry needs 225,000 extra workers just to meet demand.

Hands-on apprenticeships: Giving unemployed people a route into carpentry, bricklaying, electrics, plumbing, etc., plugs a massive gap.

Transferable skills: Even if housing demand stabilises, people trained in these trades can sell their labour privately, start businesses, or export services abroad.


🏘 2. Housing Benefits

Direct delivery of social housing: Instead of relying solely on private developers (who often prefer luxury builds), government-run training-build schemes could directly expand social stock.

Reduced costs: Trainee labour, supervised by qualified professionals, would lower the cost per unit compared to fully outsourced contracts.

Community ownership: Participants are building homes they (or people like them) might live in—raising pride and social value.


♿ 3. Inclusion of the Less Able

Not everyone can lift bricks or handle tools, but many can:

Work in planning, budgeting, logistics, spreadsheeting.

Contribute to design decisions, accessibility layouts, or even project management.

This widens participation: people with physical limitations still get vocational training, build CVs, and contribute to something tangible.


🤖 4. Future-Proofing Against AI

You’re right: AI will disrupt “knowledge work” first—legal clerks, paralegals, call centre agents.

But skilled manual labour and trades are harder to automate.

Training people in these fields gives them durable, AI-resistant skills.


⚖️ 5. Challenges and Barriers

Union resistance: Skilled trade unions may argue that trainee labour undercuts qualified tradespeople.

Health & safety: Construction is risky—trainees need strong supervision.

Short-term cost: Setting up the scheme requires upfront investment, even if long-term savings exist.

Political cycles: Housing and apprenticeships are long-term projects—politicians often prefer “quick wins”.


✅ 6. How a Prime Minister Could Frame It

As a “National Skills for Homes” programme—linking skills training, housing delivery, and inclusion.

Tie it to net-zero goals: new builds with energy-efficient design, trained in retrofitting too.

Emphasise “work not welfare”: people contribute while learning, instead of being passive recipients.

Back it with local authority land banks and partnerships with housing associations.


🌍 Precedents

Germany’s dual vocational training system: world-class, combining apprenticeships with industry placements.

US New Deal (1930s): government paid unemployed people to build parks, roads, public buildings.

Scandinavian job guarantee models: training schemes linked to public works.


🔑 Your intuition is right: this idea could kill two birds with one stone—social housing crisis + unemployed/under-skilled population—while future-proofing the workforce. The main obstacles are political will, upfront costs, and managing vested interests (developers, unions).


Would you like me to sketch out what such a pilot programme mi
ght look like (costs, scale, and outcomes), as if you were actually pitching it in a Prime Minister’s manifesto?

KTheGrey · 19/08/2025 11:12

twistyizzy · 19/08/2025 11:08

Well Labour didn't have many credible policies and many supporters during election stated they didn't care about that, they just wanted Tories out. So I really don't think it matters, all Reform need to do is not be Labour.

They said they did though. I really fell for ‘fully costed budget’ 😭fool that I am. Also the Tories are not Labour - surely there may be a split vote?

xSideshowAuntSallyXx · 19/08/2025 11:13

BIossomtoes · 19/08/2025 10:14

Oh, do stop being so rude. There’s absolutely no need for it.

Nobody needs to live in London, it’s not a God given right. If you can’t afford it you live elsewhere and commute, that’s the reason that the tax take is disproportionate to the population.

Great and that would push the prices up even more in the commuter belt towns. Many are already priced out of their hometowns by new people coming and buying the over priced new builds that are being inflicted on the home counties.

Where are we supposed to go if we then get priced out by the down from Londoners?

MaturingCheeseball · 19/08/2025 11:13

I agree with @RedToothBrush - what if you have a huge mortgage? Not everyone bought their house in 1971 for 30p. My house is an ugly 80s box and I had to pay a flippin’ fortune for it. As it is my council tax will be £4k next year - wail!

frozendaisy · 19/08/2025 11:14

The only place left to tap into the sort of money needed to continue to educated and heal the country is housing. So it's coming somehow, by someone, whomever is in charge.

No point really getting wound up about it.

YelloDaisy · 19/08/2025 11:14

AntikytheraMech · 19/08/2025 11:07

I can't understand why the government don't implement a training and apprenticeship set of skills for the unemployed or non-working or even mildly disabled to be able to manage government funded property building for social housing, with the able being able to learn carpentry or bricklaying or plastering or electrical work or gas work or any number of skills, with the less able being trained to do things like budgets and design and spreadsheets for all the multitude projects, or project management.
That would potentially kill two birds with one stone and also leave a population who previously didn't work with valuable skills that could go on to the open market which are not necessarily affected by future AI skill superiority.
Something I would investigate if I was a prime minister!

Same reason they don’t build more prisons or colleges or care homes …. No money

Swiftie1878 · 19/08/2025 11:15

TheQuirkyMaker · 19/08/2025 11:03

Brexit has made it very hard to grow our economy. Unfortunately no politician can say that, because Reform would pile on and call them traitors for not believing in Britain enough.

Oh please. Brexit, again?
How is Germany doing right now - biggest EU economy?

twistyizzy · 19/08/2025 11:16

KTheGrey · 19/08/2025 11:12

They said they did though. I really fell for ‘fully costed budget’ 😭fool that I am. Also the Tories are not Labour - surely there may be a split vote?

You're not alone sadly because there was very little scrutiny of their "fully costed" promises.
Remember Sunak being jeered for saying Labour would increase taxes etc? He was spot on!

I predict Jezza will take more of traditional Labour vote which may reduce Reform in some areas BUT Reform has pretty much taken the majority of Red Wall areas and the extremes ie Reform + Jezza are more popular with young voters. I feel many Labour voters will turn to Lib Dems if possible as protest votes but in some areas that's not possible. We could have a very interesting election indeed

RedToothBrush · 19/08/2025 11:17

twistyizzy · 19/08/2025 11:06

"Seems theres posters who have it in for anyone who thinks that private schools are wrong". No, I think taxing the education of children is wrong. I don't care what you think about independent schools but taxing education goes against every other country in the world and the basis that education, of any form and delivered by any means, is a merit good.

My point is that many posters were happy to see "others" pay that tax because it didn't affect them. Now something is being brought in which does affect them, they don't like it. I am calling out hypocrisy, nothing else.

Everyone needs a house to live in. Squeezing the bottom end of the market, will create a whole pile of social issues which are already connected with housing. It creates a situation where the biggest losers will be those already trying to get onto the housing ladder and those under the highest financial burdens already.

Its got fuck all to do with private schools.

twistyizzy · 19/08/2025 11:19

You're not alone sadly because there was very little scrutiny of their "fully costed" promises.
Remember Sunak being jeered for saying Labour would increase taxes etc? He was spot on!

I predict Jezza will take more of traditional Labour vote which may reduce Reform in some areas BUT Reform has pretty much taken the majority of Red Wall areas and the extremes ie Reform + Jezza are more popular with young voters. I feel many Labour voters will turn to Lib Dems if possible as protest votes but in some areas that's not possible. We could have a very interesting election indeed

twistyizzy · 19/08/2025 11:20

RedToothBrush · 19/08/2025 11:17

Everyone needs a house to live in. Squeezing the bottom end of the market, will create a whole pile of social issues which are already connected with housing. It creates a situation where the biggest losers will be those already trying to get onto the housing ladder and those under the highest financial burdens already.

Its got fuck all to do with private schools.

The arguments put forward are hypocrisy, that's my point which i clearly stated.

soupyspoon · 19/08/2025 11:20

DiscoBeat · 19/08/2025 11:10

We have a 5 bedroom house and considered downsizing in the future but we've been thinking more and more about eventually just using the downstairs and saving all the upstairs rooms for family when they stay. It could be cheaper than moving and we love this house. But hopefully that is a very long way off! I think others will find ways to re-invent their houses rather than move.

These threads always bring out the vague suggestions of 'downsizing'. As if every older person is living in one room under a blanket

We have a 3 bed semi. Its actually in the cheapest road in our area. I made a good choice there! (not).

So what would we downsize to, given that my OH snores so I want a separate bedroom, a 2 bed flat? These are only available further into the town, where property is a lot more expensive. We have pets so need outside space, we need storage for bikes so need a big enough garden for that. We also like gardening so need enough space for that. Unless of course in old age you're just expected to wither away.
Then there are the service charges of course, hugely expensive on flats. Many flats wont be ground floor whereas in our house we could easily reconfigure the downstairs if we get too old for the stairs. Would have to put in a bathroom etc but its doable.

A 2 bed house, again these are further into the town and would cost more than this current house.

So how to downsize? It would cost us more money, why would we do that?

Fraudornot · 19/08/2025 11:21

I loathe the way they leak these things. It will impact the property market now - people will hear this and decide to stay out to see if they don’t have to pay stamp duty on their next move up and we could be months and months away from a decision on this but in the waiting people won’t move.
In the article I read if you have already paid stamp duty moving into the house you won’t be taxed at the other end when selling so it would only apply to new sales

RedToothBrush · 19/08/2025 11:21

twistyizzy · 19/08/2025 11:20

The arguments put forward are hypocrisy, that's my point which i clearly stated.

Na. You just have it in for me.

I totally get your 'argument'.

twistyizzy · 19/08/2025 11:23

RedToothBrush · 19/08/2025 11:17

Everyone needs a house to live in. Squeezing the bottom end of the market, will create a whole pile of social issues which are already connected with housing. It creates a situation where the biggest losers will be those already trying to get onto the housing ladder and those under the highest financial burdens already.

Its got fuck all to do with private schools.

Everyone needs an education and state schools are underfunded and in crisis.
Squeezing children out of independent schools creates a whole pile of issues in the state sector. It creates a situation where the biggest losers will be those children from deprived areas, living on the edge of good catchments but who now will be priced out. It reduces the pool for granary schools even more. It increases use of tutors and just perpetuates more inequality across the system.

Every argument you are using against taxing houses can easily be used against taxing education

Maray1967 · 19/08/2025 11:24

hangerup · 18/08/2025 20:38

As someone who would be impacted by this I don't think it's terrible.
They have property taxes in lots of other countries and our council tax is based on completely outdated values.

Agreed. My house has not been rebanded - twice extended and worth significantly more than some others can our street. The current system is not working.

Bambamhoohoo · 19/08/2025 11:25

OnlyTheBravest · 19/08/2025 11:04

I know Labour are scrambling for money because they are unable to push through any type of welfare reform but it just feels that they are going for everyone else. Labour will be a one term government at this rate.

They need to go back to the drawing board and start again and really think through the impact of the changes they are proposing and ensure that these changes are looked at all in one big picture.

50k for a housing deposit in SE or 30k and transport fees, 50k for uni fees to get into a job in order to be able to save for a housing deposit. 25k in nursery fees for a child for the first two years, additional money required if you want to take time off following maternity leave to be with your toddler. Council tax that you have to pay but does not give you much in certain areas, water, gas and electric costs have doubled since Covid, food prices seem to be going up each month, growth is stagnating, the job market is unstable and the life people were promised for working hard at school/jobs is a pipe dream.

And you wonder why mental health issues are on the rise!

Labour need to be honest with the UK public. It was silly to say that they could improve things but not raise taxes. I would like Labour to be realistic, focus on getting the basics right for everyone and for everyone to be prepared to contribute and that might be hard for some people who have not been asked to contribute before but tough conversations need to be had.

Interestingly this is what Blair did in the 90s. And took a ravaged public service and transformed it. yes there was more wealth in the global economy, but I can’t shake the idea that the main difference is that then we were idealistic teenagers then and wildly encouraged it- but in 2025 we are middle aged and hate labour the way our parents did (and still do)

this is of course a generalisation based on my own experience so no need to hear about all the boomers who love labour.

twistyizzy · 19/08/2025 11:25

RedToothBrush · 19/08/2025 11:21

Na. You just have it in for me.

I totally get your 'argument'.

No, you keep saying I hate anyone who doesn't like independent schools. I've never said that. You continue to twist my words and ignore my point about hypocrisy.

No-one "has it in for you", are you 12?

I will stop there but you also stop engaging with me if you think I am targeting you.

frozendaisy · 19/08/2025 11:26

Fraudornot · 19/08/2025 11:21

I loathe the way they leak these things. It will impact the property market now - people will hear this and decide to stay out to see if they don’t have to pay stamp duty on their next move up and we could be months and months away from a decision on this but in the waiting people won’t move.
In the article I read if you have already paid stamp duty moving into the house you won’t be taxed at the other end when selling so it would only apply to new sales

So if you are selling and buying when this comes in you won't get charged for the house you sell and won't pay for the house you buy.

So for some, in a chain, this works out then?

First time buyers, the seller pays, well house builders won't they will add the charge on or demand and exemption which they will get.

How does this stop the housing market right now?

Badbadbunny · 19/08/2025 11:27

HedwigIsMySpiritAnimal · 18/08/2025 23:03

Yes, bring back the Tories! They were fab 🙄.

so fucking sick of this “hard working” narrative as if it’s only the rich that work hard 🙄

Trouble is we have too many people who aren't "working hard", i.e. young, old, early retirees, unemployed, disabled, etc. The answer is to get people who CAN work to actually work. We can't keep expected the minority (i.e. workers) to keep paying for the majority who don't.

TheQuirkyMaker · 19/08/2025 11:28

Swiftie1878 · 19/08/2025 11:15

Oh please. Brexit, again?
How is Germany doing right now - biggest EU economy?

We are not Germany. We never had their unique dependence on Russian energy. We are not France, Italy or Greece either. We are the UK, and the OBS has never wavered from a 4% contraction or 50-100 billion loss each year. Many thousands of small businesses have disappeared since 2020 and large ones have had reduced growth.

Hedgehogbrown · 19/08/2025 11:29

Does this mean renters won't have to pay council tax? If so that would be amazing.

soupyspoon · 19/08/2025 11:29

Hedgehogbrown · 19/08/2025 11:29

Does this mean renters won't have to pay council tax? If so that would be amazing.

If the landlord does it will simply filter through to your rental cost. You wont be worse or better off.

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