Thread 15: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

[DisappointedReader]

The Observer's original exposé: The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...

The 14 Observer items currently available on their online 'The real Salt Path' page: The real Salt Path | The Observer

4 more from The Observer:
‘Hope is extinguished’: CBD patients respond to Salt Path...

The real Salt Path | The Observer (The Slow Newscast)

(Live/online event)

The Observer YouTube Channel: The Observer UK - YouTube

Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement: Raynor Winn

Thread One ^www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5368194-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?^

Threads 2-11: Links all in the OP of Thread 12

Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5384574-thread-12-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5386458-thread-13-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5388981-thread-14-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

New posters joining us in the genuine spirit of our civil discourse welcome. It would be helpful to get the background from at least some of the Observer items above before posting. There are currently a number of interesting items on The Observer website and linked to above.

To all - Please be extremely cautious when it comes to naming or implicating people and addresses not in the public eye or with no direct connection to the story, and around the understandable health speculations, especially where details are unclear or still emerging. Remember, even Hollywood rabbits attract the odd flea. Please do not engage with visitors who seem to have their own agenda and seek to derail. Avoid @'ing and quoting them as - from experience - this will only encourage them back to the threads. We have done amazingly well together for fourteen very interesting, very serious and very silly threads so far. I can't be here as much as I'd like so all help with keeping our discussion walking along in our usual reasonable and respectful fashion is very welcome.

#Pinchofsaltpath
#Fudge
#Cider
#OurChloe
#OurSimon
#Correspondents
#Salray
#Timmoth
#MistakesWereMade
#EmbellishedBollox
#JustBollox
#DriveByScolding
#Glumwashing
#ThereBeSharks
#Scones
#NakedHikers
#TurquoiseGString
#BudleighSalterton
#SallyForth
#YesItReallyIsThread15
#Rabbits

Keep to the path. No saltiness. May the fudge be with you.

@RejoinedbecauseofTSPthreads

"She'd have probably got away with it if she'd not done the film promo interviews tbh."

The film was probably their undoing. I read somewhere that TSP film was shown in a Pwllheli cinema very close to where Martin Hemmings' office was and that proved too much of a provocation to his family and friends. Those who knew the truth didn't seem to want to make it public until all the publicity about the film. It must have been painful to see the WalkerWinns with Hollywood stars and getting acclaim and sympathy.

I wouldn’t necessarily see that as an endorsement, @Catwith69lives. I’ve run literary events programmes at arts centres, and sometimes you invite someone you think will draw a crowd, or be a lively and engaging performer, even if you think their work is not so great. If they’re local and you don’t have to accommodate them or pay travel expenses, all the better!

(And vice versa. A local creative writing department has sworn off ever having a gigantically famous writer again, even though he’s regularly in the vicinity visiting old friends and always draws a crowd, because he’s so rude and difficult.)

@mauvishagain — Oh go on, if one of them was blowing wads of cash at the blackjack tables of the Llŷn peninsula, that would be an interesting new angle.😀

I’m laughing at the idea of someone saying to SW in an interview ‘So, how is that handsome but never particularly useful husband of yours?’ and SW, outraged, saying ‘How very dare you?! He busks Beowulf, restored our Welsh farm with his own two hands, and carries tents over his head!’

I think I'd actually warm to her more if she was loud and rude and difficult- as long as she was honest! Honesty, even on the back of dastardly deeds can be very liberating and sometimes very funny ( tho embezzlement is never funny). Was it Gavin Maxwell who admitted in one of his books that he had stolen university exam papers and it was the only reason he and his chums passed their degrees. Forgive if not GM - it was a dastardly deed but refreshing to hear him admit it!

he has a wicked way, though, of dipping his Mars bars in his tea....

(for all of those middle aged mediocrities out there whose marriages are falling apart prematurely in Saturday afternoon shopping trips or visits to watch 'the match'....)

Quite. The late Howard Marks, drug smuggler was disarmingly honest. His book was quite well-received despite his crimes.

Fair point!

I wonder how much of an 'open secret' the Raymoth scandal was within certain select circles.

There seem to have been a large number of people in Pwilheli who knew the inside story about Raymoth's back story with the Hemmings.

I contacted somebody in Cornwall who had been warned off from attending a film premiere of TSP by a solicitor friend of theirs with contacts in the industry, who was convinced that Raymoth were not as they seemed....

Here is my back of a fag packet timeline of TW working history.

I'm a feminist and I'm feeling that SW is taking way too much flack for him in what is clearly a joint endeavour.
She's the one who's written a book and embezelled money to probably get them out of a sh*storm of his making (my theory).

I'm sure one of the excellent people on here can do better with actual dates. This is a 'straw man'. based on info come to light.
(He's very unwell so I feel has had some what of a free pass. Sorry if that makes me a bad person. But even sick people can be dicks).

-Early 1980s - at 6th form. Not sure if he got any quals but seemed to be in his early 20s at the time.
-Went to university to do botany then became a master plasterer for/with Dad.

• 1992 quit his job and moved family to Wales
• 1992- 2002.. no one knows! Renovated stuff..?!?
• 2002- 2004 gardening. Some was voluntary so not paid. Some paid as a head gardener at a small NT place.

At this point I'll be generous.. Early 90s until early mid 2000s - main SAH parenting/homemaker?? While SW worked? Running a pre Airbnb style holiday let? Looking after pet sheep? 2007- 2013- more of above? Plus buying and looking at a French patch of land (renovating?) 2013- walking/ tiling a shed 2014- as above 2015-2018 - University course 2018 onwards- author's entourage / charity walks/ rewinding a cider farms garden.

Am I being too mean??

This is why they had to embezzell a trusted friend (Hemmings were not just employers because they both worked with them. Perhaps even semi friends)

(And vice versa. A local creative writing department has sworn off ever having a gigantically famous writer again, even though he’s regularly in the vicinity visiting old friends and always draws a crowd, because he’s so rude and difficult.)

This is absolutely none of my business, but I’m so intrigued about who the writer might be! Are you able to give any clues??

Not so sure...

@Catwith69lives

• 'why did they buy a property in France?'

Probably because of sibling rivalry as some posters analysed early on here. Same with book writing. Even when we're grown up, these things can run very deep.

• 'what drove SW to start embezzling from the Hemmings?'

She wanted really good quality things in the Welsh home they were renovating and these are expensive. Also wanted holidays for them and the children, good clothes etc. They weren't going to wait until they had enough money from working; that wasn't good enough for them. Both of them come across as considering themselves superior to run of the mill people.

The character analysis is one of the reasons I find this so fascinating. There's the old question of why some people can bear poverty with a lot of dignity and never steal, whilst others who aren't poor still want more, are never satisfied and steal to get what they want.

Yes but it's not always obvious in controlling and codependent relationships. Really it isn't. I'd need more evidence.

I contacted the Rev Richard Coles about the controversy, and to his great credit, he admitted he, like so many others, was completely conned.

@Catwith69lives I'm so glad he said that, and isn't one of the people either on the fence or supporting her in any way.

I think she will be consigned to pre- recorded interviews and no live events.

@Whispersintheflowers I think the book will be quietly published next year with little to no fanfare. A lot of people will buy it, which is the most important thing for PRH: they're only interested in what it'll make, and they've invested a lot in it already that they'll want to claw back.

Walker can't really appear publicly again for events because of the risk of the potential questions being asked.

I don't buy the sibling rivalry theory. The younger brother first bought the property in VDP in 2004. He had technical skills (plastering) and a hands on approach. He must also have had some ability to communicate in French. He bought a chateau in 2006 which he has done up very successfully and made a life for himself and his family in France for 20 years. There is no way TW would have bought the adjacent property to his brother in VDP due to sibling rivalry imo. I think its much more likely that there was some joint plan to renovate both properties which went pear shaped for whatever reason ( costs, TW's unwillingness to leave the welsh home for prolonged periods etc)

I'm not so sure that renovating the barns at Pen-y-Maes explains the embezzlement. We don't know when the renovations took place. The barn was being rented out to holiday makers since 2004. TW's decision to quit the NT job combined with the financial crash may have caused cash flow problems rather than extravagant living. We simply don't know.

@FurryHappyKittens Walker can't really appear publicly again for events because of the risk of the potential questions being asked.

I understand that she did come over as detached, cold, awkward answering questions. However, she was given a lot of goodwill because of the tragic circumstances.

People have paid to go to these events and want to enjoy themselves. I have been put off by the lack of discernment shown and total silence now. I thought I would like to go to a literary festival - but maybe not?

what drove SW to start embezzling from the Hemmings?
And why did she take that final sum of money when she must have known it would be uncovered? She must have been desperate on that particular day. Did Tim take the money, not realising it would be missed, leaving Sally to cover? Was it just that they lived about their means, or were there gambling debts (so often the case - but no evidence here)?

Then even after all that, they still stayed in the area, when everyone must have heard rumours about what had happened. Why didn't they move on then?

I thought I would like to go to a literary festival - but maybe not?

I bet Our Simon does literary festivals @TheBrandyPath . Who is it again who has the cut out?😂We could form a cheer squad. "Give us an S, give us an I..."

I blame my pain meds and I'm sticking to it.

@Catwith69lives

It's still possible MothTim resented his brother's success, wanted similar but not prepared to put the work in.

I wasn't just referring to the barn conversion but the WalkerWinns home itself - it's clearly very well-appointed as seen in the TV programme and that costs a lot. If neither of them were prepared to go out to work full-time, or MothTim was too ill, they'd need money for day-to-day living and that'd burn through thousands.

This is a really useful expert opinion! You are now officially the thread Fraud Expert.

The place of marriage on the record is the Registration Office, District of Portree. If an alternative location was required, I believe that would be noted on the record - I see a lot of marriage records and that is always the case. Another likely embellishment from Sally.

That's brilliant, thank you.

So most likely not the back of a shop or wherever it was she said!!!

As I said above. What job did TW do after NT. If he was working as a plasterer again in rural Wales then I'm not sure how much he'd make. Part time bookkeeper (SW) would have been low paid too. Also they got tax credits so not high earners. I expect they socialised with higher earners though as they're clearly educated cultured etc.
I had a similar experience when My DC were young. Its hard to compete. They were not on professional salaries but living like those who are. By choice as its not a wealthy area. Debt probably. Maybe with crash horrible debt payments (2008 onwards brutal financially). I think threads ago it wad said they had a lot of credit card debt. Easy to blame SW if she was the one in charge of finances.
I can see easily how they got into the position of needing to steal (not excusing that at all. It's not most people's go to!)

This has been said on earlier threads so sorry to rehash. Its just I very clearly remember having young children during the banking crisis and crash.

Still doesn't excuse all the interviews etc since.. won't say that again though.

One aspect that I don't think has been fully examined is the Walker clan and their involvement in the saga:

• TW had 2 younger siblings and a younger sister
• One of his younger brothers allowed Raymoth to sofa surf before embarking on the SWCP and possibly afterwards
• The sister (Janette) may have received a credit in the TSP acknowledgements for allowing Raymoth to sofa surf and put them up
• The French connection brother was somebody Raymoth spent holidays with in VDP in 2004 and bought the adjoining property to the pigeonnier in 2007
• one of the French chateau owner's children made the vitriolic LI remarks about his uncle and aunt being pathological liars after the CH Observer article article broke
• *TW's parents apparently rented a fairly large property quite near the Llyn peninsula where Raymoth could have stayed between 2013-2018)
• Since then none of the Walker family have been willing to 'go on the record'...

If Raymoth's financial demise, subsequent embezzlement, loan and property repossession was in some way connected to
a) their decision to buy a property in a remote village in SW France and remortgage their welsh farmhouse and
b) TW's decision to quit his job at the NT property in N Wales
then maybe the wider Walker clan were complicit in their fall from grace, helped them out in their hour of need and are unwilling to spill the beans now that blood is on the streets (apologies for the mixed mataphors!)

There is a timeline at the start of the thread (with sources) he was at Plas y Rhiw for 9 years