Thread 15: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

[DisappointedReader]

The Observer's original exposé: The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...

The 14 Observer items currently available on their online 'The real Salt Path' page: The real Salt Path | The Observer

4 more from The Observer:
‘Hope is extinguished’: CBD patients respond to Salt Path...

The real Salt Path | The Observer (The Slow Newscast)

(Live/online event)

The Observer YouTube Channel: The Observer UK - YouTube

Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement: Raynor Winn

Thread One ^www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5368194-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?^

Threads 2-11: Links all in the OP of Thread 12

Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5384574-thread-12-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5386458-thread-13-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5388981-thread-14-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

New posters joining us in the genuine spirit of our civil discourse welcome. It would be helpful to get the background from at least some of the Observer items above before posting. There are currently a number of interesting items on The Observer website and linked to above.

To all - Please be extremely cautious when it comes to naming or implicating people and addresses not in the public eye or with no direct connection to the story, and around the understandable health speculations, especially where details are unclear or still emerging. Remember, even Hollywood rabbits attract the odd flea. Please do not engage with visitors who seem to have their own agenda and seek to derail. Avoid @'ing and quoting them as - from experience - this will only encourage them back to the threads. We have done amazingly well together for fourteen very interesting, very serious and very silly threads so far. I can't be here as much as I'd like so all help with keeping our discussion walking along in our usual reasonable and respectful fashion is very welcome.

#Pinchofsaltpath
#Fudge
#Cider
#OurChloe
#OurSimon
#Correspondents
#Salray
#Timmoth
#MistakesWereMade
#EmbellishedBollox
#JustBollox
#DriveByScolding
#Glumwashing
#ThereBeSharks
#Scones
#NakedHikers
#TurquoiseGString
#BudleighSalterton
#SallyForth
#YesItReallyIsThread15
#Rabbits

Keep to the path. No saltiness. May the fudge be with you.

https://archive.ph/i7m0G#selection-825.144-825.231

where he (Moth) appeared more dashing, perhaps, than the Hollywood actor enlisted to play him.

So,assuming The Observer doesn’t come up with any major new revelations in the next month or two, where do you think it will go from here?
Surely Moth/Ray can’t hide out forever.
Will they take any legal action?
Will there be a big live interview to answer questions and dispute the Observer’s claims?
Will Penguin reprint the current books when stocks run out?
Will the fourth book be released with or without any fanfare?
Will some book festivals start to feature Raynor again?
Will Gigspanner have her back?

One possibility might be that Penguin vetted the book to remove any explicit claim of a miracle cure, leaving that to be read between the lines. But when doing interviews and articles, that trick is impossible (or too difficult) to carry off: after all, the whole point of the story is that the extreme walk helped "Moth".

So it wouldn't be surprising if there were a distinction between the stataements in the book (selective in choiice of words) and all the later statements (not vetted by lawyers).

If so, a timeline of the statements could be quite revealing.

I write/edit Wikipedia articles. I looked to see how many articles Chiswick Guy has created. Over 800 new articles since 2009 and over 200 GA-status articles. That is a pretty impressive number of contributions. He's not Tim Walker. There are a lot of opinionated Wikipedia editors (usually older guys) . Fortunately, other editors can challenge or change content that they think is too subjective. Please feel free to remove content that you think reads like marketing material.

@OakPark @Peladon Isn't it Chiswick Chap?

I think there's a strong suggestion in TSP of linking the physicality of the walk to the improvement of Moth's symptoms (I've pasted some pertinent excerpts from TSP below). Arguably not declaring a cure per se, but highly misleading. I think the most dangerous aspect of what RW wrote was to directly refute professional medical advice, which I think is irresponsible no matter how subjective it might have been.

--

Moth to Raynor: ‘I think it’s extreme physio. Maybe I’ll have to keep walking all my life.’

--

What had the consultant said just three months ago? ‘Don’t tire yourself, or walk too far, and be careful on the stairs. Don’t carry heavy weights, or plan too far ahead.’...No, the doctor should have said walk every day, do weight-bearing exercise, fight it, keep your mind active, look ahead, fight it.

--

Moth to Raynor: 'It’s obviously got something to do with heavy endurance exercise. It must cause some sort of reaction that we don’t understand.'

--

Moth was on death row, but he’d been granted the right to appeal. He knew CBD hadn’t miraculously disappeared, but somehow, for a while, it was held at bay.

--

Raynor to Moth: 'If we hadn’t walked this path, we’d have waited for a council house, hidden ourselves away and given in. Who knows how far you would have deteriorated?'

[ETA tagging @Peladon as noticed you were also chatting about this topic)

You are right. Chiswick Guy was the name in the post, and I repeated that in my reply, but I checked the page history and did an article search on Chiswick Chap. Chiswick Chap has written 800 pages since he became an editor. And he has not made any edits on the Raynor Winn page since July 20th, he was last active on the talk page around July 11th. So he probably has moved on.

Thanks @oakpark. How do you know that he's not TW?

The photo at the bottom of Chiswick Chap's info page on Wikipedia, re. the edits of The Salt path etc, is of Ian Alexander whose blog and that very photo is here. So prob not Moth...
Wooden Pegs (whatever next) … and a Congregation of Newts | ObsessedByNature share.google/sWx1AGMQ5EccNjjFp Making Wooden Pegs (whatever next) … and a Congregation of Newts | ObsessedByNature share.google/sWx1AGMQ5EccNjjFp

I think those would all come under the disclaimer of ‘subjective opinion of author’. Or ‘subjective batshit opinion of author’.

Which I think helps rather than hinders the official PRH position, because there’s no actual snakeoil here, and it’s not simply a replicable cure.

Even Moth can’t keep up his own Salt Path miracle regime for more than two stints of a couple of months, even if we accept the timeline of TSP (which we may not). SW isn’t telling us to buy her essential oils/cook her whole food recipes/ have coffee enemas etc, because they work — Moth simply appears to be unable to replicate ‘homelessness on the path’ however much he tries off the path.

We’re told he tries long hikes carrying a pack, going to the gym, exercise bikes during the time at Polly’s, but none of it works.

Again in TWS, ‘Raynor’ thinks the problem is he’s been too sedentary while studying, and that he needs an stress-free, wild, green life. But when he gets one, on the cider farm, that doesn’t work, either, so they have to go and walk in Iceland.

In LL, he’s so weak, despite this green outdoor life on the cider farm, that he can’t even walk two miles. So obviously Raynor drags him off to walk the Cape Wrath trail.

This ‘miracle cure’ doesn’t work, or it’s only the most fleeting of amelioration, and available only to those who have the strength, leisure, money, skills, equipment, appropriate partner etc to take off and do LD trail walking. And if you can, are you going to spend the rest of your life doing so?

I don't see that there is much that can be done, getting the point over, that when this book was supposedly set 2013 with it's claims of a diagnosis that didn't happen until two years later, a lot of publicity about that would be good for starters, even better if the health authority was to confirm that the Winn's have done this, they can protect the consultants identity.

If it is one consultant and they have been complicit, keeping quiet when they know their diagnosis has been used to make a more dramatic story, then perhaps Moth should have a different consultant, there are according to the online information 10,000 sufferers of CBD in the UK, I'm sure there are other neurologists with CBD patients in the UK.

The specialist in Southampton says in interviews he has 140 CBD sufferers he sees at his unit, there must be many others providing care to reach 10,000 patients nationwide. We keep talking about this like Moth had been given a terminal CBD diagnosis in 2013 at the same time they moved out of their house. It is not true, so every word Salray writes about CBD at this time point is fabrication.

Thanks @stickymitts

I have written 350 new articles since 2017, mostly UK historic site pages and archaelogy subjects. I work on these articles daily-researching, writing, re-writing before publishing them. If Chiswick Chap, who writes on a variety of subjects, has written 800 pages and written over 200 GA pages(Good article status--lengthy review process), he is a pretty smart guy, an excellent writer, and he is probably very busy spending his days researching and writing Wikipedia pages. I am confident Tim Walker does not spend most of his free time researching and writing Wikipedia articles on subjects like the "History of Winchester College", "Celtic Influences on Tolkien", "List of Barley Cultivars", and "History of Bioelectricty".

Sure, I'm not saying any of what was in my post puts PRH in it. It's all on RW for misleading for so long, even if it seems when one looks closer that "walking in nature" doesn't work and is often questionable or contradictory (i posted recently listing how few trips they've actually done between 2013 and 2025). But most readers read superficially and with trust, so it undoubtedly misleads, and is cemented by what RW says in interviews.

@Aussiebornandbred all intriguing questions! Just my two cents at this stage:

Will they take any legal action? I have a feeling they won’t.

Will there be a big live interview to answer questions and dispute the Observer’s claims? I don’t think so.

Will Penguin reprint the current books when stocks run out? I don’t think so either.

Will the fourth book be released with or without any fanfare? I think it’ll still be released, but without any publicity.

Will some book festivals start to feature Raynor again? I don’t think so.

Will Gigspanner have her back? I don’t think so.

Have we considered that the walking only works if SalRay writes about it?
if a tree falls in the forest and there’s nobody to hear it fall….etc

Agree with both this post and the previous version! 😂

I’m surprised that the PSPA charity charity kept them as ambassadors for as long as they did. Obviously TSP did them a lot of good by raising awareness of (and raising funds for) CBD, but surely the charity must have had their suspicions about the health claims / symptom reversal before now. And if not, why not?

It only works if there’s a book deal? Although I guess there wasn’t one in place for the first book.

Fagan 52 said
** all intriguing questions! Just my two cents at this stage:
Will they take any legal action? I have a feeling they won’t.
Will there be a big live interview to answer questions and dispute the Observer’s claims? I don’t think so.
Will Penguin reprint the current books when stocks run out? I don’t think so either.
Will the fourth book be released with or without any fanfare? I think it’ll still be released, but without any publicity.
Will some book festivals start to feature Raynor again? I don’t think so.
Will Gigspanner have her back? I don’t think so.

So the money will dry up fairly quickly?
Looks like they might have to move on yet again from their (up-market this time) rental property and lead a very quiet life.

I don't think the money will dry up quickly. If they £2m in the bank generating 4% IR that brings in £80k pa. Their rent is probably no more than £36K pa. Add on council tax, heating, tax etc and they could easily live on the interest income from their savings for many years providing they don't go mad and start investing in fast cars, exotic foreign holidays or develop an online gambling habit. Long distance walking, wild camping and eating noodles is also a pretty low cost way of spending your leisure time as shown in TSP!

😀

Nothing that I can see @OpenThatWindow . They appear to have exceeded the fundraising target on Kickstarter but I imagine some of the rewards might be trickier to deliver now - there is for example a writing workshop with RW and backstage passes for gigs, some of which have been cancelled

@freshsocks, I worked as a medical doctor for over 30 years and I cannot think of any pre-existing framework for a doctor to report someone such as TW. Yes, there's guidance as to what you should do if you feel you ought to break confidentiality, but that errs on the side of NOT doing so.

For the consultant to say to anyone not involved in his care, that TW is MW and is under his care, counts as breaking confidentiality. That's before giving any medical details whatsoever. Can you see how difficult it would be to give even the slightest indication that something was up?

And to whom would the consultant report this?