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Thread 15: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

1000 replies

DisappointedReader · 14/08/2025 10:52

The Observer's original exposé: The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...

The 14 Observer items currently available on their online 'The real Salt Path' page: The real Salt Path | The Observer

4 more from The Observer:
‘Hope is extinguished’: CBD patients respond to Salt Path...

The real Salt Path | The Observer (The Slow Newscast)

(Live/online event)

The Observer YouTube Channel: The Observer UK - YouTube

Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement: Raynor Winn

Thread One ^www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5368194-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?^

Threads 2-11: Links all in the OP of Thread 12

Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5384574-thread-12-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5386458-thread-13-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5388981-thread-14-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

New posters joining us in the genuine spirit of our civil discourse welcome. It would be helpful to get the background from at least some of the Observer items above before posting. There are currently a number of interesting items on The Observer website and linked to above.

To all - Please be extremely cautious when it comes to naming or implicating people and addresses not in the public eye or with no direct connection to the story, and around the understandable health speculations, especially where details are unclear or still emerging. Remember, even Hollywood rabbits attract the odd flea. Please do not engage with visitors who seem to have their own agenda and seek to derail. Avoid @'ing and quoting them as - from experience - this will only encourage them back to the threads. We have done amazingly well together for fourteen very interesting, very serious and very silly threads so far. I can't be here as much as I'd like so all help with keeping our discussion walking along in our usual reasonable and respectful fashion is very welcome.

#Pinchofsaltpath
#Fudge
#Cider
#OurChloe
#OurSimon
#Correspondents
#Salray
#Timmoth
#MistakesWereMade
#EmbellishedBollox
#JustBollox
#DriveByScolding
#Glumwashing
#ThereBeSharks
#Scones
#NakedHikers
#TurquoiseGString
#BudleighSalterton
#SallyForth
#YesItReallyIsThread15
#Rabbits

Keep to the path. No saltiness. May the fudge be with you.

The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...

The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...

Penniless and homeless, the Winns found fame and fortune with the story of their 630-mile walk to salvation. We can reveal that the truth behind it is ve...

https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-real-salt-path-how-the-couple-behind-a-bestseller-left-a-trail-of-debt-and-deceit

OP posts:
Thread gallery
59
Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 17/08/2025 15:43

SimoArmo · 17/08/2025 15:37

Yes. They did an awful job even trying to sell it. I think they thought being entered into the house raffle would be enough incentive (and get individuals to buy multiple copies) without thinking about how a normal book, even a self-published one, is marketed.

Particularly since it's a well known (and much bandied about fact) that the majority of self published books sell only 250 copies over the lifetime of the book. So only the most self-aggrandising author would expect to get anywhere near the 250,000 figure, even with a 'lottery entry with every book' as a sweetener.

SimoArmo · 17/08/2025 15:46

BlueHorses · 17/08/2025 15:11

I think it would be a huge stretch to attempt to prove that an individual neurology consultant who saw a patient called Tim Walker at some point should have been expected to recognise their patient as the 'Moth Winn' character in a best-selling memoir, decide that his/her diagnosis was being misused for gain, and disclose the real TW's diagnosis to protect the public from thinking that you could walk off CBD.

Yes, would be hard to prove. Unless it's the same consultant who wrote all the letters, as it's clear by Feb this year they knew about the film. I emphasise if.

RainyTuesdaysAndSunnyWednesdays · 17/08/2025 15:46

PullTheBricksDown · 17/08/2025 15:23

OK so doesn't look like they could have supported themselves through farming the 'smallholding'. How then were they earning money to live on during the mid 2000s years? Or any of the years they lived in Wales? Early on TW was gardener then head gardener, RW was a law clerk at one point and working at the Abersoch hotel at another, assuming that's all true. She'd have young children then though so those may have been part time jobs. What made TW quit as gardener, whenever exactly that was, and how did they then support the family? Did they count on income from the barn let? Was this when the embezzlement began, to fill the gaps?

They could have been renting fields (a 2 acre field is mentioned early in TSP) but I don't think a smallholding is enough to provide for a family of four without one or both adults having an outside wage coming in.

SimoArmo · 17/08/2025 15:50

PullTheBricksDown · 17/08/2025 15:23

OK so doesn't look like they could have supported themselves through farming the 'smallholding'. How then were they earning money to live on during the mid 2000s years? Or any of the years they lived in Wales? Early on TW was gardener then head gardener, RW was a law clerk at one point and working at the Abersoch hotel at another, assuming that's all true. She'd have young children then though so those may have been part time jobs. What made TW quit as gardener, whenever exactly that was, and how did they then support the family? Did they count on income from the barn let? Was this when the embezzlement began, to fill the gaps?

The 2015 medical letter described TW as a landscape gardener and stopped working in 2013. So perhaps he was operating a sole trader gardening business that we don't know about?

cricketandwhodunnits · 17/08/2025 15:50

AzureStaffy · 17/08/2025 15:37

@cricketandwhodunnits

There's a quote from The Odyssey in TSP after the Prologue:

 Tell me about a complicated man.

Muse, tell me how he wandered and was lost...

Oh wow! Thanks @AzureStaffy @TheBrandyPath no further encouragement needed to go skipping off down this path of analysis... always mindful, as @PullTheBricksDown suggests, that the connection is probably no deeper than "absolutely anyone in a Western context who writes a story with a long dangerous journey involving home / loss of home is probably referencing The Odyssey a little bit"...

TheBrandyPath · 17/08/2025 15:54

TheBrandyPath · 17/08/2025 15:36

Yes, I acknowledge I was probably just bored! @cricketandwhodunnits is right - it is so embedded in my Psyche

And because we are on this Thread, and one of our specialisms is:

Simon Armitage Homer's Odyssey

Originally commissioned for BBC Radio, Simon Armitage recasts Homer's epic as a series of dramatic dialogues. His version bristles with the economy, wit and guile that we have come to expect from one of the most individual voices of his generation.

They did not use his version (after all that)

SimoArmo · 17/08/2025 15:54

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 17/08/2025 15:43

Particularly since it's a well known (and much bandied about fact) that the majority of self published books sell only 250 copies over the lifetime of the book. So only the most self-aggrandising author would expect to get anywhere near the 250,000 figure, even with a 'lottery entry with every book' as a sweetener.

Tbf I think they were in blind panic

TheBrandyPath · 17/08/2025 15:56

SimoArmo · 17/08/2025 15:54

Tbf I think they were in blind panic

The word Panic, Panikos in Greek, meaning a sudden sensation of fear, overwhelming anxiety or agitation; a feeling so strong as to often block out reasonable and logical behavior, is derived from Pan, the name of the Greek god of shepherds, woodlands and meadows.

(I will go away quietly, for a while}

Freshsocks · 17/08/2025 15:59

@BlueHorses I know I'm labouring this point but a consultant who knows that a diagnosis they have given is being used by a patient for financial gain or the harm of others has a duty to report it, when they are aware, presumably this consultant is now aware, I don't see how they cannot be, they work in a specialist field, this must be the biggest scandal they have seen related to this condition.

I am not suggesting that they are pilloried or any action is taken against them, just that it is accepted by the medical staff caring for Moth that this has happened, to stop them from manipulating further medical diagnosis given.

cricketandwhodunnits · 17/08/2025 16:05

TheBrandyPath · 17/08/2025 15:54

And because we are on this Thread, and one of our specialisms is:

Simon Armitage Homer's Odyssey

Originally commissioned for BBC Radio, Simon Armitage recasts Homer's epic as a series of dramatic dialogues. His version bristles with the economy, wit and guile that we have come to expect from one of the most individual voices of his generation.

They did not use his version (after all that)

The epigraph from The Odyssey in TSP doesn't actually credit the translator (that's very sloppy editing & the translator has the right to be very annoyed - they deserve exactly as much credit for "their" Odyssey as Heaney does for "his" Beowulf!)

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 17/08/2025 16:06

TheBrandyPath · 17/08/2025 15:56

The word Panic, Panikos in Greek, meaning a sudden sensation of fear, overwhelming anxiety or agitation; a feeling so strong as to often block out reasonable and logical behavior, is derived from Pan, the name of the Greek god of shepherds, woodlands and meadows.

(I will go away quietly, for a while}

Plus Pan's appearance - with his half-man-half-goat attributes is supposed to indicate the inherent wildness of his nature and his one-ness with all things pastoral.
Just like Moth.

User14March · 17/08/2025 16:08

Do we know why Ray was earlier so sensitive about anyone finding out ‘Moth’s’ real name?

cricketandwhodunnits · 17/08/2025 16:14

cricketandwhodunnits · 17/08/2025 16:05

The epigraph from The Odyssey in TSP doesn't actually credit the translator (that's very sloppy editing & the translator has the right to be very annoyed - they deserve exactly as much credit for "their" Odyssey as Heaney does for "his" Beowulf!)

And fwiw, the translator is the classicist Emily Wilson. She gets a copyright acknowledgement in the front matter ,but it would have been nice to see a female author acknowledged in the text... first woman to translate Homer into English verse!

PullTheBricksDown · 17/08/2025 16:22

cricketandwhodunnits · 17/08/2025 16:14

And fwiw, the translator is the classicist Emily Wilson. She gets a copyright acknowledgement in the front matter ,but it would have been nice to see a female author acknowledged in the text... first woman to translate Homer into English verse!

Add another one to the list of things the PRH editorial team could and should have picked up. They should know better even if RW didn't.

cricketandwhodunnits · 17/08/2025 16:25

Further poetry-related sloppy editing: when Moth reads from Beowulf in St Ives, the quotation misses out the very first word of the poem, which is a hugely important word - Heaney wrote a lot about his translation choice for just that one word. Tiny things. But kind of disrespectful to Heaney and to Moth's Special Book. Still, checking it made me look back at Heaney's Beowulf, which is much better reading than TSP.

cricketandwhodunnits · 17/08/2025 16:28

cricketandwhodunnits · 17/08/2025 16:25

Further poetry-related sloppy editing: when Moth reads from Beowulf in St Ives, the quotation misses out the very first word of the poem, which is a hugely important word - Heaney wrote a lot about his translation choice for just that one word. Tiny things. But kind of disrespectful to Heaney and to Moth's Special Book. Still, checking it made me look back at Heaney's Beowulf, which is much better reading than TSP.

Ignore this. Mistakes were made. He does say the first word. Just separately from the main quote.

BlueHorses · 17/08/2025 16:44

Freshsocks · 17/08/2025 15:59

@BlueHorses I know I'm labouring this point but a consultant who knows that a diagnosis they have given is being used by a patient for financial gain or the harm of others has a duty to report it, when they are aware, presumably this consultant is now aware, I don't see how they cannot be, they work in a specialist field, this must be the biggest scandal they have seen related to this condition.

I am not suggesting that they are pilloried or any action is taken against them, just that it is accepted by the medical staff caring for Moth that this has happened, to stop them from manipulating further medical diagnosis given.

I don't think it's that straightforward. For a start the unidentified consultant, as represented in TSP, does not give a firm diagnosis of CBD/S, and is specifically represented as saying he can't be sure, that it could only be determined at a post-mortem, and that Moth's variety, if that's what it is, is clearly very slow-developing. All of the alarmed description of how

a rare degenerative brain disease that would take the beautiful man I’d loved since I was a teenager and destroy his body and then his mind as he fell into confusion and dementia, and end with him unable to swallow and probably choking to death on his own saliva. And there was nothing, absolutely nothing they could do about it

is carefully placed in the mental narrative of a shocked and disbelieving spouse who keeps insisting 'You've got it wrong.'

I think it would be a stretch to legitimately claim that anything that consultant is represented as doing/saying in TSP could have given rise to harm to others to the extent that a legal process could compel that he (assuming he is a he) be forced to testify in a legal setting and disclose confidential medical information in the interests of public safety. (And I assume that ensuring this didn't happen would would have been one of the key concerns of the legal read.)

Whether someone else's possible misunderstanding of a tentative diagnosis of a possible atypical form of a condition, in a book that turns out to be a best-seller, constitutes a public interest reason to violate patient confidentiality seems like a stretch (to me. Not a lawyer or a medic, though. Maybe @mauvishagain would have some thoughts on this?)

And, honestly, I'd be surprised if this in any way constituted a big scandal in a medical setting, where the potential for staff to be held accountable for actions or lack of actions that directly or indirectly lead to patient deaths is always there.

BlueHorses · 17/08/2025 16:46

cricketandwhodunnits · 17/08/2025 16:25

Further poetry-related sloppy editing: when Moth reads from Beowulf in St Ives, the quotation misses out the very first word of the poem, which is a hugely important word - Heaney wrote a lot about his translation choice for just that one word. Tiny things. But kind of disrespectful to Heaney and to Moth's Special Book. Still, checking it made me look back at Heaney's Beowulf, which is much better reading than TSP.

Yes, a lot of ink has been spilt on how best to translate 'Hwaet'!

Tealeaf3 · 17/08/2025 16:47

User14March · 17/08/2025 16:08

Do we know why Ray was earlier so sensitive about anyone finding out ‘Moth’s’ real name?

Easier for anyone curious about their back story to dig up something nasty if they have a real name to go on( even if only partial) Or for someone to put 2 and 2 together who might not otherwise have connected Tim Walker with Moth Winn

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 17/08/2025 16:51

Tealeaf3 · 17/08/2025 16:47

Easier for anyone curious about their back story to dig up something nasty if they have a real name to go on( even if only partial) Or for someone to put 2 and 2 together who might not otherwise have connected Tim Walker with Moth Winn

I also wonder if it was part of the general control she seems to like to assert over her own narrative. His name is Moth, because she says so.

Or maybe it's because names have power; knowing someone's true name gives you power over them... Too whimsical?

cricketandwhodunnits · 17/08/2025 16:56

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 17/08/2025 16:51

I also wonder if it was part of the general control she seems to like to assert over her own narrative. His name is Moth, because she says so.

Or maybe it's because names have power; knowing someone's true name gives you power over them... Too whimsical?

You know who else hid his true name at a crucial point in the narrative? That's right, Odysseus... [But not Beowulf, as far as I recall].

RainyTuesdaysAndSunnyWednesdays · 17/08/2025 16:56

@Vroomfondleswaistcoat Or maybe it's because names have power; knowing someone's true name gives you power over them... Too whimsical

Sunny Sundays are meant for whimsy though, and for sitting in the garden, glass in hand, being at one with nature.

BlueHorses · 17/08/2025 17:00

cricketandwhodunnits · 17/08/2025 16:56

You know who else hid his true name at a crucial point in the narrative? That's right, Odysseus... [But not Beowulf, as far as I recall].

Perhaps SW should have called Tim 'Noman' or 'Outis' in TSP, and claimed it was his old school nickname because he'd been at the kind of classics-heavy public school where you might get a nickname from the Odyssey. Smile

Uricon2 · 17/08/2025 17:08

BlueHorses · 17/08/2025 16:46

Yes, a lot of ink has been spilt on how best to translate 'Hwaet'!

Oh this, my late DH did an essay purely about "Hwaet!" at university. I don't think anything firm was concluded, of course😂

He did become rather fond of saying it when he wanted to be listened to (I still married him)

TheBrandyPath · 17/08/2025 17:11

We are accused of hiding behind pseudonyms. This is blatantly untrue. Like most, we use these nicknames alongside our legal names. The legal names we use on our bank records, our utility bills etc. Our friends and neighbours use Sal and Tim interchangeably with Ray and Moth - there is nothing hiding in our names. (Raynor Winn statement
----
No. There are reports that you use your legal names with neighbours and those you meet, no mention of your nicknames, then:

The Polruan Blogger
The Parsons

You used your nickname when you were a company director of a housing charity, you were required to use your legal name.

It is amusing to see the percentage of the 'Raynor Winn' entry on Wikipedia that is devoted to their names!

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