Child's consent for medical treatment..

[PamIsAVolleyballChamp]

Am hoping this comes across coherent but really upset from what a friend has said re my child and getting his 'consent' re treatment.
Our ds was born at 35 weeks, was in Nicu and still under 3 different consultant so hospital is our life and have clinics every 12 weeks. One of my colleagues has today told me it's abusive not to seek dcs consent before he has any tests or treatment and that we've been wrong for letting the paeds team do his surgery at 9 months without his expressed consent. How could he do that??

We used to get ASSENT (not CONSENT) from children between about 12 and 16 for some things (like medical/clinical trials). I might be off of the exact ages (it's been a while since I was in that world) but basically when they were old enough to understand/have opinions but too young to be signing their own consent (so, maybe it was up 18 and could have been older than 12 at the younger end). I think that this was required when it was an NIH trial, but we did it other times as well. I don't actually know what happens if the kid doesn't give consent as it isn't legally binding.

However, your friend is totally idiotic when you're talking about an infant. Also, these were clinical trials, so, not "standard of care".

Your colleague has been reading (and also misunderstood!) Janet Lansbury, who advises parents to tell their babies what they are going to do before changing their nappies, and to describe what they are doing as they are doing it. The idea, I think, is to show respect for the baby as a unique individual rather than just a thing to have something done to it, as it acknowledges their presence and potential feelings about the situation.

There was also a "sexuality expert" a couple of years ago who talked about asking for consent when nappy changing, although her words got over-emphasised and taken out of context - but of course, it's a ridiculous concept! Her point was basically to drill / brainwash parents through repetition literally from day 1 the idea of the child/baby having bodily autonomy and laying a groundwork for the concept of consent much later on. The baby/child grows up expecting to be asked before anyone touches their body and knowing it's okay to say no. Of course, given the fact that "May I clean your teeth now?" is popular in so many houses with small children, I am sure they would also grow up with appalling dental issues, but hey ho.

Your colleague has no idea how ridiculous this is when talking about NICU babies, or how hurtful. Did she actually use the word abusive? If so, I would seriously be considering making a complaint to your manager and / or HR.

I'm so sorry your colleague has added to the stress,worries and emotional storm you are living with right now. I hope your little one is okay.

it's sad to loose a friend, you will have to ditch this one. she's shown her true idiotic colors.

I would have a hard time having any respect for anything that colleague ever said again.

I’m sure your emotions are on overdrive dealing with everything, so understand why even such an utterly stupid comment might tip you over the edge. Your colleague’s lack of compassion is also despicable. But PP is right that it’s a laughable comment and not worthy of your upset.

Wishing you and your baby all the best and hope things go as well as they possibly can for you.

Just tell her that you talked him through it, he read some research papers then he completed and signed his consent form.

It's no more ridiculous than what she's saying.

She's a raving lunatic!

My 5 year old has been receiving cardiac treatment all her life. She absolutely hates it and every test / admission / treatment is traumatic and frankly we have to do a lot of holding her down. What do I do instead? Do nothing and let her become seriously unwell or worse?

Your friend is a dick

Wait are you really referring to a 9 month old here? How can he consent, babies don’t understand the concept of medical treatment and informed consent?

your friend is bat shit!

Back in the days of me working in cardiology we were called in.

When the patient came down from the ward he was writhing in pain and couldn't sign the consent form and might not have even known where he was.

As a team we agreed that it was in his best interests to be treated in the cath lab.

It's not common but it does happen.

A similar thing happens when someone comes in to A and E unconscious.

It isn't just 'consent' it is 'informed consent', your child is too young to understand so even if you could ask him he doesn't understand.

You are his advocate and your colleague need to butt out.

In fact ask your colleague if she were to suddenly have an epileptic fit would she like you to call an ambulance and put him/her in the recovery position? That is medical treatment without consent.

What a ridiculous fool your "friend" is. Not just for the stupid comments but to be so insensitive to your difficult situation and deliberately make you feel worse at a vulnerable time makes her truly awful. She's a twat of the highest order and needs to be told to bugger off.

My nephew was born deaf. Cochlear implant surgery before the age of 12 months was his best opportunity to be able to hear and speak. So of course his parents made that choice on his behalf. If they had waited for "consent" he would have been too old to gain maximum benefit. Your friend is absolutely ridiculous.

Your colleague has serious issues, but those are not your concern. Your only concern is making sure your child is looked after, and that's what you're doing. Time to ask your HR team to have a word and be very firm of the colleague approaches you again "I want you to keep your uninformed personal opinions to yourself in future, please only talk with me about work."

Young children often might not want to wash their hands, have a bath, go to bed, learn to write, take antibiotics, eat vegetables, be left with childcare and myriad other small things, yet parents have to make decisions on their behalf based on wider knowledge. A 9 month old can object to a nappy change, which doesn't mean it's in their interests to be left sitting in poo, in fact that would still be neglect. Work with doctors on what's best for your child medically.

Does she also think the Earth is flat?
Ignore her, OP.

So I take it her children don’t have vaccines, calpol, eye tests, hearing tests etc until they turn eleven?

Your colleague is batshit.

Your colleague is an arsehole.

You are 100% acting in your child's best interests and acting in line with doctors' recommendations. Assuming this is NHS treatment, they aren't going to recommend anything unnecessary. Would she rather you say to your child in the future 'oh we could have done surgery to improve X and Y but we didn't because you didn't consent, so you have to deal with the consequences'.

My children are fully vaccinated. They definitely did NOT consent to them when younger. Even at 3, bribery was involved and they would have said no if they could!

In summary, your friend is extremely insensitive and being an idiot about this.

She is resentful no one sought her consent for her lobotomy. This is about her, not you. Tell her to bring it up with her therapist.

Then lean in and say, quietly, "They are watching. All the time. They can hear your thoughts. Be careful." Leave a roll of tinfoil on her desk with hat-making instructions. Sign it "from a friend."

This colleague is an absolute idiot, pay her no heed whatsoever and tell her not to mention your child ever again. Children cannot consent to medical care, they are too young to understand and so their parents consent in their best interests and on their behalf. That's what parents are for! To care for their children and make decisions for them until they are old enough to do so themselves.

That's it! Thank you all for your kindness and reassurance, and confirming that it's batshit, she also agrees with the consent before nappy changing and something called 'divisional responsibility' (I think) where the child has an equal say in parenting... as in doesn't want to do something they don't, and other randomness.
I think the heat must have got to me yesterday! DS is older now and a toddler, but still in and out of hospital- and a recent admission prompted this 'chat' as I'd been saying it'd been a horrible time with this heat, he'd kept trying to pull out his ivs so they'd had to put in his feet and bandage them up. And that's when the cats bum face, condescending comment came.
Thanks all again, feel a bit daft that didn't just shut her down straight away!!

Just tell her that due to him not refusing and attending the appointment hes giving implied consent.

What a world we live in!

@PamIsAVolleyballChamp your batshit crazy colleague is talking out of his/her ares. I bet he/she's the type who thinks that you need a babies permission to change their nappy.
No child under 14 gets a veto about lifesaving surgery and a non verbal child whos under a year old is so far from gillikic competency that no Dr would even consider asking the child.
You've done nothing wrong, but please do tell your colleague to keep their ridiculous comments to themselves in future.
Edited because I misread the op

So she’s suggesting that if your toddler is pulling out his IVs, he’s not ‘consenting’ and you should just leave him? I mean, most kids don’t like antibiotics or their nappies changed either and will totally refuse but as the parent, you have to do it anyway as it’ll be bad for their health if you don’t.
That’s the whole point of being a parent, to make decisions based on your child’s best interests until they’re able to do it themselves.

If you refuse perfectly normal medical treatment for your child, I’m pretty sure you’d soon find social services involved.

Some people are just bonkers!

Well bluntly speaking your colleague is a fucking idiot who can't tell the difference between a consenting adult and a child.

"OK I see. OK. Rest assured that if you ever collapse in the office neither I nor anyone else in here will call an ambulance for you, because you haven't consented . I'll make SURE of it."