To think it is not that easy to 'get a better job'

[EuclidianGeometryFan]

Seen a few threads lately about people with money issues, and on low wages or minimum wage.
Then some posters say things like 'why haven't you got a promotion in the last X years?' 'Why don't you re-train / upskill?' 'Why don't you get a better job?'

As if anyone stays in a minimum wage job for years just for the fun of it!

The job market is a pyramid - there is not enough room on the higher levels for everyone. Even as you age you can't automatically expect to climb the ladder and move up - the maths don't stack up. Not every field of work has a 'career ladder'.
Some people are stuck on minimum wage or not much more, for life. They may not have the ability or skills or aptitude to re-train or get promoted, let alone the time and energy.

It smacks of blaming the OP for not being ambitious enough. Some posters seem to have no conception of what life and the job market is like for minimum wage workers.

Should still be able to run a home and family if working a full time job. Shouldn't need 'top ups' and if they can afford rentals that's more than a mortgage, they should be eligible for a mortgage.

As an ex employment advisor this is so true. I also practice what I preach. Struggled to find work out of uni for a year so just volunteered at a charity shop. That enhanced my CV so despite the hassle of doing basic retail for several hours per week with no monetary value, it was worth it in the long run as it helped get me my first extremely basic job MNW despite being a graduate. Still did it to gain the experience and for several years dealt with being screamed at all day (worked in a debt collection environment) and used that experience for a slightly better role. During this time I experienced DV in my mid 20s from a mentally ill family member and a near mental breakdown and had to set up home alone. The first night I was petrified as someone had tried to break front door in. Slept downstairs for first month with telly on!

I almost fell into pit of my face doesn’t fit as I’m brown not white but carried on and eventually v long story short very painfully dealing with quite traumatic events along the way including alopecia which nearly broke me as I was running on empty anyway - fast forward many years and I’m 52 now and in a senior position with a good salary and pension. Still single annd no support ever received from anyone. Alienated from family due to physical and emotional abuse since my l20s and many times I felt I couldn’t but I actually could and I did.

Not judging anyone as everyone has different circumstances and motivations but I just wanted to highlight that even in less than perfect circumstances if you keep at least searching and trying it’s not impossible to be at least a little better off than before and you keep progressing like that. When I was an advisor so many people refused certain types of work as demeaning as they were hyper focused on the now and refused to consider how they could utilise it as a springboard. Even if the progress is painfully slow - it’s still progress but if you’re not even moving (trying) then that’s a risky position.

Again no judgement on anyone with a different view but just thought I’d share my work journey.

I'm attempting to move from customer service into administration. I did a university diploma level course involving data analysis. It is really hard. I'm getting nothing back from my applications

🙄

Have you even bothered to read the full thread?

Obviously not with your ignorant comment.

Amazon is a massive employer in the UK and they have been offering employee training, including apprenticeships for ages. They also offer free online training to people who don't work for Amazon.

Still excuses. Many of us have been underestimated and even excluded yet thrived because we didnt let that stop us from trying. As I said - I do not discount the real challenges both mental and physical (and even background) that can be barriers to progress. But binning them simply means not allowing them to stop you from trying, from striving , from pushing ahead. Accepting that it may be more difficult for you at some time points but struggle doesnt last forever.

What is the alternative - accept the status quo?

Well it is odd if people just say ot randomly for no reason lile any phrase or expression but I presume when it is said it is response to something said, so other than its ok to play an endless victim better jobs dont fall into people's lap you have to do things yourself to get one or another

So what would the right answer be then?

To answer the OPs question, if someone had money issues and is asking for advice, earning more has to be among the suggestions, in all but the rarest examples? If that maths isn’t stacking up what other answers are there? It’s either earn or cut back. There aren’t really any other paths. It’s not easy, for some it may be impossible, but for others it’s the only way to resolve money worries. One example: industries pay vastly differently. Being a PA or admin assistant in one industry will be paid less than another: same core skills, different pay.

I also think it depends where you live for example I live in a very rural area where there are not many opportunities. Moving with elderly parents and friends here isn’t what we want.

I haven't read the whole thread as I need to get the dog out so apologies if this has already been said. We were talking about similar last night here, it really annoys me the way people go on about others in low paid jobs! Somebody has to do these jobs! If there wasn't people working these jobs society wouldn't function. Yet people are looked down on and should just think themselves lucky that they work 40 hours just to keep a roof over their head. They cant afford fancy meals out or expensive holidays or even a nice coffee if they want it in some cases but are told they shouldn't have Netflix or Disney as one tiny little pleasure when they cant do bugger all else!

How are you supposed to do that with children and a full time job?

Because you won’t always have dependent children will you.

Lots of people balance full time work with study. I did. It is hard work but for me… reaped dividends

I’m in a job where there are zero promotion prospects from where I am and a request to increase my hours back to full time was also refused. So I’m looking for new roles. Salaries are stagnating. Some jobs I’m looking at that have more responsibility and role breadth than I have now are advertised at £10k less than my current FTE. It’s bonkers.

The job market is rough at the moment but what I would say is you have to keep trying. Be bold and apply for things that are more of a stretch. A man would. I set aside time every week to look for jobs that fit and tailor applications.

I am lucky though. We can manage as we are, just less comfortably at the moment, and I’m happy at work if a little bored. I appreciate if you are unhappy and / or not managing it’s much much harder!

Salaries are stagnating. Some jobs I’m looking at that have more responsibility and role breadth than I have now are advertised at £10k less than my current FTE. It’s bonkers.

Agree 100%. My current role is still paying the same for new entrants as they did 15 years ago. And I wanted to move into a slightly different role requiring a specific qualification - 3 years ago most of the roles I was looking to move to paid £20k more than I was on. So I got the qualification, and now when I look the same roles pay £20k less than my salary (& my salary has not increased by much at all!)

@newmummycwharf1

More nonsense.

You cannot just wish away disabilities, they do last forever...

And it is again very naive to think that there is not a bias from employers when it comes to employing or retaining someone who declares a disability/long term health condition.

I think you sound woefully ignorant about the real barriers that so many people face in the workplace.

There are bias against all sorts of characteristics yet many thrive despite these barriers. Too many examples to name, significant data to back it up. No one said it is easy, just that difficulties are surmountable for many NOT ALL and it is ALWAYS worth trying.
Hope you are able to comprehend that. Hope many in these positions are able to find any residual inner strength to try. Hope they do not latch on to defeatist comments and thoughts and give up. Be well

Absolutely. It's mathematically impossible for everyone to get a better job. It's a silly capitalist fallacy that people like to churn out. But it's on the Mumsnet bingo card every time someone says they are struggling.

By the same token, the mathematical equation solving for who gets the job, the opportunity, the idea to set-up a solution that others pay for does not equate to a particular person. Therefore no reason why person X cant seek to improve themselves.

Someone uptrend mentioned studying part-time for 6 years whilst working full-time. I know someone who did that and had 2 kids. It is not easy, some people dont have to do that because their families set them up with opportunities early, or they where born in a privileged country to educated parents who supported them or they were just lucky. Others create their own luck and it becomes a little easier for the next generation

So many personal examples of people I know on minimum/low wage who have transformed their lives and many who havent. The main difference are 2 things: Wanting to stay where they are (e.g. choice, not working for money, severe circumstances, accepting there is no way out) and believing and acting on the belief that they have value to give and can therefore command more.

I've only done minimum wage type jobs. I'm in my 40s. Reasons are mental health issues/self esteem. Didn't have a great childhood. Neither parent had a career. Both unstable people who aren't/weren't(one is dead) very good at coping with life. It's taken me till recently to learn to drive. Live in a rural area too without many high paid jobs. It's only now I'm looking at other jobs but ive got next to no commute, great holiday entitlement(get extra for long service) and don't feel the same anxiety like I use to in jobs before. So I'm not sure i'll find a better paying job once you take travel costs into account.

Just wanted to say that it’s very tricky for admin roles at the moment. Lots of uncertainty around potential for AI efficiency gains. If you liked the data analysis, I’d recommend pressing on and trying some more advanced data skills. You may have more luck as these are the roles more in demand at the moment.

I did it with a full time job and 2 children. Evenings and weekends. Drop the children to Stagecoach on a Saturday and spend those 3 hours studying. Study while they are in bed. Get up early and study.

Always wonder of the 'get a better job then' people what their life would look like if they didn't have access to the services that we all use, week in, week out, that rely on a workforce of low paid workers.

Regardless of individual circumstances, we need more workers at the bottom of the pyramid than the top, no point having 30 managers if they've no one to manage is there? The work isn't going to get done. Makes more sense to have 29 working and one managing. But that seems to mean that the 29 working 'can't be arsed' and the manager is a hero for being the one who got the promotion.

I think some people resent the fact that they need the services of lower paid workers to keep their lives turning or their job productive and conveniently forget that without them, both wouldn't happen.

I'm quite happy working hard and living a modest life, but it's come to the point where you struggle to just survive on the lower end of the wages spectrum, while people rely on the work your doing but also tell you it's not worth doing and that you are lazy and uninspired for doing it. We've got recruitment issues in just about every low paid sector, and people are not shy in bemoaning the effect that has on the services they use, can people genuinely not join the dots and see the utter lack of respect and conditions are a factor in that?

While it's possible for anyone to have the rags to riches story, if everyone did then we'd soon find life grinding to a halt pretty quickly.

Also think it's odd. I mean I know it makes sense for that individual - it would make their life easier. But then who would do the minimal wage jobs? It doesn't really address the bigger issue.

With qualifications including data analysis, what skills do you have your CV? Have you learned PowerBI and similar, these are starting to be requested more and more. Once my currently qualification (2.5 years) finishes next month, my next plan is getting to grips with PowerBI. Whilst I don’t know how to use or build it yet, I know it could make a big impact to what I do

With AI ingraining itself more and more into complex tasks, admin roles are becoming significantly fewer. You need skills that will have you stand out from others

I think one of the issues is more and more jobs are becoming minimum wage jobs or hover just above minimum wage. The expectations for a lot of low paid jobs are huge

I spent time training etc and then minimum wage went up and up and my wage stagnated until they nearly met. I then had to train again. Its like a lifelong thing training, not a one off thing.

And I agree 100% that not everyone can get a better job or the country will collapse and that people in those jobs deserve to be able to afford to live. Not everyone has capacity to train either due to life.