Page 9 | Thread 14: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

DisappointedReader · 2025-08-09T22:11:39+00:00

The Observer's original exposé: [[https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-real-salt-path-how-the-couple-behind-a-bestseller-left-a-trail-of-debt-and-deceit The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...]] The 13 Observer items currently available on their online 'The real Salt Path' page: [[https://observer.co.uk/collections/the-real-salt-path The real Salt Path | The Observer]] 3 more from The Observer: [[https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/hope-is-extinguished-cbs-patients-respond-to-salt-path-allegations ‘Hope is extinguished’: CBD patients respond to Salt Path...]] [[https://observer.co.uk/listen/the-slow-newscast/the-real-salt-path-1 The real Salt Path | The Observer]] (The Slow Newscast) [[https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/we-thought-it-cant-be-the-salt-path-couple-theyd-have-told-us-they-were-homeless ‘We thought: it can’t be the Salt Path couple – they’d ha...]] Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement: [[https://www.raynorwinn.co.uk/ Raynor Winn]] Thread One ^[[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5368194-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?* www.mumsnet.com/talk/amibeingunreasonable/5368194-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?]]^ Threads 2-11: Links all in the OP of Thread 12 Thread 12: [[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5384574-thread-12-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5384574-thread-12-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?]] Thread 13: [[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5386458-thread-13-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5386458-thread-13-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?]] New posters joining us in the genuine spirit of our civil discourse welcome. It would be helpful to read at least some of the Observer items above before posting. There are currently 16 interesting items on The Observer website and linked to above. To all - Please be extremely cautious when it comes to naming or implicating people and addresses not in the public eye or with no direct connection to the story, and around the understandable health speculations, especially where details are unclear or still emerging. Please do not engage with visitors who seem to have their own agenda and seek to derail. Avoid @'ing and quoting them as - from experience - this will only encourage them back to the threads. We have done amazingly well together for thirteen very interesting, very serious and very silly threads so far. I can't be here as much as I'd like so all help with keeping our discussion walking along in our usual reasonable and respectful fashion is very welcome. Are we all becoming Hyperglycaemic from all the fudge? Have shares in Cadbury's gone up? Can we remain cheerful in the face of such shameless glumwashing? Will I need to fill up with much petrol this thread for the drive-by scoldings? Will our Chloe H get exclusive interviews with the disgruntled peregrine, tortoise and Hollywood rabbits? What has our Simon A got to say about this, preferably in verse? Keep to the path. No saltiness. May the fudge be with you.

LightofVermeer · 10/08/2025 19:36

The individuals in publishing are I'm sure mostly very nice people but collectively they become a single 'monster' required to respond to current trends, hyping books to death to achieve sales targets, prioritising 'emotional pull' over truth ( in non-fiction). Be a little bit careful what you wish for if your dream is to be published. It's an industry where #bekind is thrown around like custard pies at a chimpanzees' tea party but in reality unless you are the hot property of the moment you are treated really quite poorly. It remains to be seen whether they will continue to #bekind to SW.

GogleddCymru · 10/08/2025 19:36

Hyenana · 10/08/2025 10:19

Looks like I missed it...
Was it about yesterday's Observer article?

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Tied to it. A female guest who said she thought the whole saga was basically just people trying to take down a successful female (yawn ... my italics) author, with no reference to any of the reams of supporting evidence, and a male guest who hadn't read the book (and didn't appear to know there were sequels) who thought it was odd that this all came out after the film was released ... Reminded me of some of the posters on Facebook who say it's a witchhunt, they're lovely, leave them alone. Deeply disappointing from R4.
Apologies if someone else has responded before me - just catching up!

SparklyEmeraldShoes · 10/08/2025 19:43

Cinaferna · 10/08/2025 11:45

I'm not condoning their behaviour - to lie about the embezzlement is a serious omission, but it's slightly odd that they are being picked up on changing datelines and small details, such as who they met when. This sort of smoothing out of material is really common in creative non fiction, as people want a story and life doesn't arrive in neatly packaged narrative form. I'm thinking about Educated, the famous and brilliant book by Tara Westover. Right towards the end of the book she admits she had several more brothers than she has described so far, and that she has made up their names to protect their identities and amalgamated the things that happened to them all into a couple of brothers' experiences. This made the book much more dramatic and easy to follow. I was quite thrown by this late admission and would have preferred it at the start.

And her hapless, dirt poor, inept, essential-oil making mother ended up being a world leader in essential oils production. I realised I had a few in my bathroom. She has a huge factory and employs lots of people. So she can't have been just brewing a bit of lavender at home and then made the sudden leap to massive factory owner. She must have been incrementally successful at some point. But that didn't play into the emotional journey of Westover escaping this dirtpoor junkyard and fighting her way to becoming a Cambridge Don. But she wasn't scrutinised for the discrepancies in her story because she partially admitted to them, late on in the book. And it is often understood that there's a creative element to Creative Non Fiction - memoir etc.

I'm interested in whether people would find the other discrepancies okay in Winn's story if the embezzlement were not at the heart of it.

I think this is an interesting question (sorry for quoting the whole post - I can't understand how to edit quotes)

For me as a reader the embezzlement is the fundamental deal-breaker. It undermines the entire story about the loss of a house, the unfortunate investment, eviction, and the reason for the walk. Embezzlement is a nasty crime and in this case particularly nasty because it apparently involved long-term deception and theft from people SW would have been seeing every working day.

Without that, I doubt whether I would have been very concerned about adjusted time- frames, minor embellishments or inaccuracies. I might have paused briefly to wonder whether a strenuous hike was ideal for a sick man, but without questioning the diagnosis, and I might have felt mildly surprised, among other things, by the number of ageist remarks attributed by SW to random strangers she met on the path, but that's about it.

So yes, it's the embezzlement. However 'creative' creative non-fiction is allowed to be, it splits into a million little pieces (a la James Frey) if the foundations of the story collapse.

LightofVermeer · 10/08/2025 19:48

SparklyEmeraldShoes · 10/08/2025 19:43

I think this is an interesting question (sorry for quoting the whole post - I can't understand how to edit quotes)

For me as a reader the embezzlement is the fundamental deal-breaker. It undermines the entire story about the loss of a house, the unfortunate investment, eviction, and the reason for the walk. Embezzlement is a nasty crime and in this case particularly nasty because it apparently involved long-term deception and theft from people SW would have been seeing every working day.

Without that, I doubt whether I would have been very concerned about adjusted time- frames, minor embellishments or inaccuracies. I might have paused briefly to wonder whether a strenuous hike was ideal for a sick man, but without questioning the diagnosis, and I might have felt mildly surprised, among other things, by the number of ageist remarks attributed by SW to random strangers she met on the path, but that's about it.

So yes, it's the embezzlement. However 'creative' creative non-fiction is allowed to be, it splits into a million little pieces (a la James Frey) if the foundations of the story collapse.

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Excellent summing up. I absolutely agree. I cannot move past the embezzlement for the reasons you outline so articulately.

Catwith69lives · 10/08/2025 19:49

SparklyEmeraldShoes · 10/08/2025 19:43

I think this is an interesting question (sorry for quoting the whole post - I can't understand how to edit quotes)

For me as a reader the embezzlement is the fundamental deal-breaker. It undermines the entire story about the loss of a house, the unfortunate investment, eviction, and the reason for the walk. Embezzlement is a nasty crime and in this case particularly nasty because it apparently involved long-term deception and theft from people SW would have been seeing every working day.

Without that, I doubt whether I would have been very concerned about adjusted time- frames, minor embellishments or inaccuracies. I might have paused briefly to wonder whether a strenuous hike was ideal for a sick man, but without questioning the diagnosis, and I might have felt mildly surprised, among other things, by the number of ageist remarks attributed by SW to random strangers she met on the path, but that's about it.

So yes, it's the embezzlement. However 'creative' creative non-fiction is allowed to be, it splits into a million little pieces (a la James Frey) if the foundations of the story collapse.

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Minor embellishments or inaccuracies?????? I wouldn't mind betting that 90% of the anecdotes/incidents recounted in TSP are either made up or massively embellished. SW has zero shame or moral compass and therein lies the problem.

Tealeaf3 · 10/08/2025 19:55

Hmm…. I think they could have got away with the embezzlement coming out, I’m also fine with a bit of creative license re timescales etc. For me it’s the dubious claims about the extent of Moths health problems that really is difficult to swallow. I’ve only read TSP, not the other 2 books, but it appears rather than “ fessing up” re Moths health, which I believe readers would have accepted ( yay, massive relief, Moths consultant believes he may have been misdiagnosed), it appears she doubled down on the CBD diagnosis. Not ok.

AlertCat · 10/08/2025 20:13

@crossedlines i agree with what you say. We’ll likely never know and I suppose the hope that we will find out is what keeps us hanging in for 14 threads…

AlertCat · 10/08/2025 20:16

@crossedlines i agree with what you say. We’ll likely never know and I suppose the hope that we will find out is what keeps us hanging in for 14 threads…

AzureStaffy · 10/08/2025 20:16

@SparklyEmeraldShoes quoting

@Cinaferna re Tara Westover

"But she wasn't scrutinised for the discrepancies in her story because she partially admitted to them, late on in the book. And it is often understood that there's a creative element to Creative Non Fiction - memoir etc."

Jeanette Winterson does similar in 'Why Be Happy When You Could Be Normal?' She talks about memory and truth here and in her autobiographical 'Oranges Are Not The Only Fruit.' There's a character called Testifying Elsie who is kind to the child Jeanette but Winterson reveals she made her up as she didn't like the idea of the child not being comforted at all by any adult. So it was a way of giving comfort to herself retrospectively. This is very different to concealing criminality and stating it's all unflinchingly truthful.

Featherbeds · 10/08/2025 20:35

Tealeaf3 · 10/08/2025 18:24

Posted this before- Bill Bryson in Guardian interview “ After the American success of A Walk in the Woods, it was assumed he would now” do the Pacific Crest Trail or some other walk. They (his publisher) would have given me a fortune because they can sell the same book over and over again. But while I had a wonderful experience, I certainly didn’t want to write another book about hiking. For a start, nothing happens. You just put one foot in front of the other. You might have a great day, but it’s not an interesting thing to write about, let alone read”.”

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Sure, but Bill Bryson was a bankable name, who’d had best-selling non-fiction books across a variety of topics. His name is the draw, not the topic. He can afford to say ‘Nope, no more walking books — dull.’ SW had one bestseller to her name, and there would have been pressure on her to replicate its success. People do like reading different iterations of the same book.

I also don’t think I’d classify TSP as a travel book. It’s not about the places the Walkers pass through at all. I don’t think it would have been an appreciably different book if they’d walked a different LD trail.i wouldn’t see it as having any relationship to Colin Thubron or Dervla Murphy. It’s more ‘Here’s a weird thing I did’ meets walking book.

SwetSwetSwet · 10/08/2025 20:39

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Hyenana · 10/08/2025 20:42

GogleddCymru · 10/08/2025 19:36

Tied to it. A female guest who said she thought the whole saga was basically just people trying to take down a successful female (yawn ... my italics) author, with no reference to any of the reams of supporting evidence, and a male guest who hadn't read the book (and didn't appear to know there were sequels) who thought it was odd that this all came out after the film was released ... Reminded me of some of the posters on Facebook who say it's a witchhunt, they're lovely, leave them alone. Deeply disappointing from R4.
Apologies if someone else has responded before me - just catching up!

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No, you are the first to answer, thank you!

Was it this program, because one can still listen to it?

Broadcasting House:
Will the map of Europe be redrawn this week in Alaska?
Will the meeting of Trump and Putin in Alaska see land swaps agreed? Labour peer Maurice Glasman gives his analysis from Ukraine. Also Tiger Moth mapping and a look at renting.

www.bbc.com/audio/play/m002gzqg

Catwith69lives · 10/08/2025 20:42

Featherbeds · 10/08/2025 20:35

Sure, but Bill Bryson was a bankable name, who’d had best-selling non-fiction books across a variety of topics. His name is the draw, not the topic. He can afford to say ‘Nope, no more walking books — dull.’ SW had one bestseller to her name, and there would have been pressure on her to replicate its success. People do like reading different iterations of the same book.

I also don’t think I’d classify TSP as a travel book. It’s not about the places the Walkers pass through at all. I don’t think it would have been an appreciably different book if they’d walked a different LD trail.i wouldn’t see it as having any relationship to Colin Thubron or Dervla Murphy. It’s more ‘Here’s a weird thing I did’ meets walking book.

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A fusion of genres hence its success.

crossedlines · 10/08/2025 20:44

SparklyEmeraldShoes · 10/08/2025 19:43

I think this is an interesting question (sorry for quoting the whole post - I can't understand how to edit quotes)

For me as a reader the embezzlement is the fundamental deal-breaker. It undermines the entire story about the loss of a house, the unfortunate investment, eviction, and the reason for the walk. Embezzlement is a nasty crime and in this case particularly nasty because it apparently involved long-term deception and theft from people SW would have been seeing every working day.

Without that, I doubt whether I would have been very concerned about adjusted time- frames, minor embellishments or inaccuracies. I might have paused briefly to wonder whether a strenuous hike was ideal for a sick man, but without questioning the diagnosis, and I might have felt mildly surprised, among other things, by the number of ageist remarks attributed by SW to random strangers she met on the path, but that's about it.

So yes, it's the embezzlement. However 'creative' creative non-fiction is allowed to be, it splits into a million little pieces (a la James Frey) if the foundations of the story collapse.

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excellent post. The embezzlement, which as you rightly say was particularly awful because clearly the Hemmings trusted SW wholeheartedly and saw her as a friend as well as employee, is impossible to ignore. There are no grey areas or blurred lines: it’s a criminal act. Disgusting and so damaging to the victims.

Catwith69lives · 10/08/2025 20:52

Salt Path author gave false details as ‘it all seemed too complicated’

Tealeaf3 · 10/08/2025 20:52

I think her biggest mistake was her rebuttal statement after the Observer article came out. If she’d shown a bit of humility and fessed up “ yes, it is true that I misappropriated money, and that was the root cause of losing our home. It was a difficult period of my life and I’m utterly ashamed of what I did to the Hemmings family. I apologise to them unreservedly for the hurt and pain I caused.I also apologise to readers of TSP for misrepresenting the cause of the repossession. I did pay back the money owed to the Hemmings and hoped to move on with my life etc etc” she would have got a lot more sympathy. Instead she doubled down, implied it was not her fault and that the company she worked for made the mistakes. Not a good look.

PullTheBricksDown · 10/08/2025 20:58

Tealeaf3 · 10/08/2025 19:20

Certainly helps the story if you have a bizarre traveling buddy such as “Steven Katz” to provide comic value along the way ( A Walk in the Woods ), there’s not so much opportunity to interact with others on these big US walks. Really helps to have traveling companions I think- Mark Twains fellow travelers, who he was fantastically rude about, provided plenty of laugh out loud moments in “ Innocents Abroad”.

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Katz was good comic relief and I very much liked A Walk In The Woods. Must read it again.

Tealeaf3 · 10/08/2025 21:05

PullTheBricksDown · 10/08/2025 20:58

Katz was good comic relief and I very much liked A Walk In The Woods. Must read it again.

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I seem to remember Bill Bryson got fed up with it and didn’t walk large parts of the trail, but he was quite open about it

Catwith69lives · 10/08/2025 21:10

Wearing my psychotherapist hat, I have a sneaky feeling that the person SW would most likely to emulate is Sarah Winman.

She is the only author who features on her IG feed, she is completely authentic, liberated, gay and a wonderful writer of fiction!

Sarah Winman — Matilda Bookshop

Thread 14: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

Featherbeds · 10/08/2025 21:31

Tealeaf3 · 10/08/2025 21:05

I seem to remember Bill Bryson got fed up with it and didn’t walk large parts of the trail, but he was quite open about it

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Yes, I was outraged that he just stopped when I read it!

Hyenana · 10/08/2025 21:33

GogleddCymru · 10/08/2025 19:36

Tied to it. A female guest who said she thought the whole saga was basically just people trying to take down a successful female (yawn ... my italics) author, with no reference to any of the reams of supporting evidence, and a male guest who hadn't read the book (and didn't appear to know there were sequels) who thought it was odd that this all came out after the film was released ... Reminded me of some of the posters on Facebook who say it's a witchhunt, they're lovely, leave them alone. Deeply disappointing from R4.
Apologies if someone else has responded before me - just catching up!

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Yep, it was on this program https://www.bbc.com/audio/play/m002gzqg
starting at 40:30 for about 3 minutes.

The female guest was podcast host Cally Beaton, who among other annoying things did the 'but why did it come out NOW?' as if asking that question was the world's best gotcha (and they never wait for an answer because clearly that is not the point of this question)

And the man doing the equally annoying pseudo-intellectual 'what is the nature of memory and truth anyway?' was Alistair Burt, ex-politician turned Uni chancellor who does not seem to care as much about embezzlement and honesty as someone in his position should...

On the one hand I would really like these two to spend an hour with Ros Hemmings or John Todd to get the issue explained to them, but neither Ros nor John should have to spend that hour with them.

BBC Audio | Broadcasting House | Will the map of Europe be redrawn this week in Alaska?

Will the summit of Presidents Trump and Putin lead to a realignment of Ukraine and Russia?

https://www.bbc.com/audio/play/m002gzqg

Hyenana · 10/08/2025 21:42

Catwith69lives · 10/08/2025 20:52

Salt Path author gave false details as ‘it all seemed too complicated’

Edited

What fascinates me most about this copycat article is the picture of Sally and Tim in the orchard, because the crouching position Tim is in requires quite a high degree of flexibility as well as strength to then get up again.

I mean, there are men his age without any particular health conditions who would struggle a bit with that - at least find it uncomfortable enough to ask the photographer if one couldn't rather sit down on a nice bench...

AlertCat · 10/08/2025 21:46

Hyenana · 10/08/2025 21:42

What fascinates me most about this copycat article is the picture of Sally and Tim in the orchard, because the crouching position Tim is in requires quite a high degree of flexibility as well as strength to then get up again.

I mean, there are men his age without any particular health conditions who would struggle a bit with that - at least find it uncomfortable enough to ask the photographer if one couldn't rather sit down on a nice bench...

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Yes- very good point- I go to a lot of yoga classes and it’s quite rare for even fit and healthy people in this age group to be comfortable in a squat of any shape. Ironically walking is one of the things that makes us lose flexibility in the hips, but both of them in that picture are squatting with ease and in jeans!

Tealeaf3 · 10/08/2025 21:48

Hyenana · 10/08/2025 21:42

What fascinates me most about this copycat article is the picture of Sally and Tim in the orchard, because the crouching position Tim is in requires quite a high degree of flexibility as well as strength to then get up again.

I mean, there are men his age without any particular health conditions who would struggle a bit with that - at least find it uncomfortable enough to ask the photographer if one couldn't rather sit down on a nice bench...

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Maybe he’s sitting on a teeny tiny invisible stool😀

AzureStaffy · 10/08/2025 21:50

@Hyenana

"Alistair Burt, ex-politician turned Uni chancellor who does not seem to care as much about embezzlement and honesty as someone in his position should..."

Burt, ex-Dishonourable Member for north east Bedfordshire, filibustered a proposed Off Patent Drugs Bill which would have provided cheap and effective drugs for the NHS, by deliberately talking for half an hour. This was when he was health minister. Disgraceful character.