to think that it's a bit naive to assume that when someone does something helpful, it's always because they're lovely and kind and so you just have to be grateful no matter what?

[welliemum]

Been on my mind a bit, this topic.

I've seen quite a few threads on MN where someone has done something apparently helpful for the OP, yet the OP feels irritated and/or undermined.

People then queue up to beat the OP around the head and shout at her that this helpful person is lovely, how DARE she be ungrateful and she should consider herself lucky because other people's friends and relatives never do anything for them/beat them to death every night with a stick/eat their children/whatever.

I think this is naive actually. There are some very controlling people around, and for someone like that (I've known a few) one of the most satisfying ways of controlling someone else's life is to help them - whether they need help or not.

I would say that if an offer of help has been clearly and firmly declined, yet the "helper" forges ahead regardless, then they're doing it for their own gratification and the "helped" person has every right to feel miffed and vent angrily on MN.

Or AIBU and also a nasty cynic?

Well, a bit cynical imo but I wouldn't call you nasty.

YANBU. I know people like this. I've not posted on the other threads you may be talking about but I did hold an opinion which went against the flow.

Kindness - even if it is partly motivated by the desire of the 'giver' to feel good about themselves, is not to be sniffed at. There is enough cruelty and indifference in this world imo

I have been looking out for you.

Happy one year on.............

Is everything still tickety boo ??

I agree. Sometimes it's difficult to articulate a situation on a thread correctly without it sounding whiney though.

I also agree that lots of people "give" whatever it may be with questionable motives. My MIL has offered to do a day's childcare for us when I return to work and lend us her car in order to achieve this but it isn't workable for lots of reasons. The main one is that I don't want to be in her pocket. She's done stuff like this before and it bites us on the arse at a later date.

However to the outside world you could see a lovely granny wanting to spend time with her only grandchild relieving her son and his wife of financial pressures...

Hmm (thoughtful not ). YANBU, I think.

A friend of mine - I love her to bits, don't get me wrong - almost seems to delight in thinking I'm not coping, need help etc. etc. She wants to see me more often than I can realistically (and for my own sanity) manage, and has got it into her head that my 8relative!) lack of availability is because I'm struggling and 'withdrawing'. Now, if I were struggling - and I do struggle, sometimes, not consistently - she would not be the person I would be talking to about it, precisely because of this.

I wouldn't say she is controlling, mind you - more insecure about aspects of her life and rather wildly projecting.

There was one a while ago where the OP's MIL had bought them a huge (taking up significant space in the house) toy for their child despite being explicitly asked not to. I forget the details but I think the OP and her DP had already decided that they far preferred something different (and had said so).

Pretty much everyone on the thread said that OP was being appallingly spoilt and ungrateful.

I was amazed. I simply could not imagine giving someone something that was going to sit in their living room for years, after they'd said in so many words that they didn't want it.

I think that for a controlling person, controlling the contents of someone else's home must be one of the Top Prizes wherever controlling people get together to award their Oscars.

I guess I am a cynic (and possibly nasty, hmc nothwithstanding!)

It depends on the situation. Some people, for instance, will offer/give money to someone who needs it but having given the money will feel that they have 'bought' certain rights ('We've given you the money to pay for your wedding reception therefore we get to choose who's invited being an ovbious example). Or the person making the offer of help is known to the poster as extremely manipulative and controlling.
But sometimes people are pissy and ungrateful and too proud to accept neeeded help. Trouble is, every situation is different.

Maybe that's the point here 'needed' help...

I think welliemum is referring to a thread (I only saw it after all the hullabaloo had died down) on which the OP was unwise enough to vent about a friend who had steamrollered a rare opportunity she had to entertain at home, by bringing loads more food than requested and opening all her own stuff up immediately.
I felt very sorry for the OP on that thread - it's so hard to convey a situation like this in a few sentences online - and I think she was put right in her place in a very constructive Mumsnet manner.
Welliemum, you're right. I think we all know people who cross the line between proactive helpfulness and and taking control, in RL.

It was a mahoosive ELC Thomas set and the OP said the "p" word...plastic, thereby forfeiting any expectation of thoughtful replies. Ah yes, I remember it well.
Madamez is right though - every situation is different in RL.
tbh I think AIBU is pernicious in its implicit invitation to roll up and have a pop, and I expect this one will kick off too in due course.

I'm trying not to mention recent threads because I feel a bit uncomfortable creating a thread to discuss another thread iyswim, but I've noticed a pattern for ages and there was one recent one in AIBU which got me thinking about it all again.

Another example is people's mothers or MILs coming round to tidy their house, rummaging in drawers etc.

Or relatives babysitting and completely going against the parents' wishes about childrearing.

In one sort of family that would be really lovely and helpful and you would just overlook any minor inconvenience, but in another, it could be really unpleasant and interfering.

(No personal axe to grind here by the way - I have lovely rellies and I just wish they weren't all thousands of miles away )

Exactly hatrick...

Bree, thank you! Absolutely brilliant.

I suppose there must be times when it's a good thing to help someone even after they've refused help.

For example, someone who's deeply depressed and not thinking straight, or someone who really needs and wants help but is too proud to say so. In those circs I would push a bit harder and I think would be justified in doing so.

But it's a fine line because you're basically telling that person they can't cope, which is horribly undermining.

WellieMum

We were five years on re implant last weekend, and about another five weeks forward for switch on. God Bless Cochlear{other implants are available} and all who sail in her.

ISWYM Welliemum. If I posted on here to rant about relatives' kindness/interference and I had said that it was me who had the problem with control - then , yes, I think I'd deserve the beating around the head.

If I'm not the control freak but this person has taken their helpfulness too far then it's unfair to pick on the OP. But AIBU threads seem to court a row or two.

Is the situation really apparent on every post? I think not. I know that I am not very articulate at relaying stories, I've had to retype this a dozen times to try to put my point across.

Hear Hear with all my heart Bree! Wow, five years is an amazing landmark!

It's true, these AIBU threads are artifically polarising. And we always only have a brief snapshot of life from the OP's point of view which makes it very hard to know exactly what's going on.

I suppose what annoys me is the assumption that the OP is always being unreasonable if they're not happy - whereas I can easily imagine that the relationship is complicated and the giver doesn't necessarily have a heart of gold.

I am with you on this one. My in-laws literally showered us with a ridiculous anmount of clothes for DD1 for the first few years of her life and, because they are very controlling in other ways, I firmly beleive that this was a (possibly unconcious) attempt to control what my daughter wore. I think they thought that if they bought all these clothes there would so many that I wouldn't buy any - WRONG! But if I posted this then I would get lots of people telling me that I should be glad that my in-laws want to help blah blah blah when in fact taking the whole hideous lot of them (well most of them) to the charity shop is just a big pain in the arse.

of course YABU people are free to say no to others help and good deeds if they don't want it.
but to accept it and then bitch about it is just petty.

theBOD - but some people don't accept a no. My mum is like this (lovely in general but refuses to accept when people have said no).
She'll offer to help in a specific way (she already helps us loads). I'll say thank you, that's very kind of you, but no. She'll then go on and on, trying to wear me down and asking me to justify my decision - do I not have the right to say no and for it to be accepted without this kind of thing?

I disagree, theBOD: people aren't always free to say no, and I think that's partly what the problem is.

In the dinner thread mentioned by Marina, for example, the OP's friend asked several times what to bring, and was told "Nothing" or "Just a bottle of wine" and STILL brought loads. Then she opened all the packaging when she arrived so there was no opportunity for the OP to put it away quietly for later.

I don't see what the OP could have done to stop her, frankly, short of rugby tackling her to the ground, wrenching the stuff away and throwing it in the bin. Which would have been silly and pointless.

And that's a key issue I think - when someone is forcing help on you against your will, after a while you're going to question what their motives are. Does someone like that really have the other person's best interests at heart? Because if they do, why are they persisting with something that's clearly making the person very uncomfortable?