to think that it's a bit naive to assume that when someone does something helpful, it's always because they're lovely and kind and so you just have to be grateful no matter what?

[welliemum]

Been on my mind a bit, this topic.

I've seen quite a few threads on MN where someone has done something apparently helpful for the OP, yet the OP feels irritated and/or undermined.

People then queue up to beat the OP around the head and shout at her that this helpful person is lovely, how DARE she be ungrateful and she should consider herself lucky because other people's friends and relatives never do anything for them/beat them to death every night with a stick/eat their children/whatever.

I think this is naive actually. There are some very controlling people around, and for someone like that (I've known a few) one of the most satisfying ways of controlling someone else's life is to help them - whether they need help or not.

I would say that if an offer of help has been clearly and firmly declined, yet the "helper" forges ahead regardless, then they're doing it for their own gratification and the "helped" person has every right to feel miffed and vent angrily on MN.

Or AIBU and also a nasty cynic?

I felt very sorry for the OP on the dinner thread.

As someone mentioned earlier on, it's not always possible to convey every nuance of a situation/relationship in a post. Reading between the lines I think the OP had other issues with her friend which she maybe hadn't had an opportunity to get across yet. Very few people asked insightful questions to glean more information. Instead, she was treated like she was absolutely bonkers to be upset with the situation to the point where she posted to say she was off (as I would have done myself!).

Not every seemingly kind act is done selflessly. Quite often, the person committing this 'kind act' is doing so for their own gratification. Think some people who responded could have been more understanding and delved a little deeper rather that bounce an immediate 'are you insane??!!' response back (as has happened with some other postings recently).

Well done for bringing this up welliemum!

Welliemum - you are absolutely right - sometimes people do nice things because they are kind, or perhaps hadn't thought about the raminfications of their kindness. Some of them unfortunately have ulterior motives.
I was given a high chair. Very kind, saved us buying one. But I was a bit disappointed as it is really the kind I wanted, but at the end of the day it saved us buying one.
However it has gone in the tip.
Got it out a couple of days ago to have a look at it as I'll be needing it before too long. The mechanism is knackered, had a hell of a time trying to put it up and nearly trapped my fingers. When DH managed to get it up I found it was absolutely filthy, in-ground dirt and all sorts which made me think it had never been cleaned! Then we had an awful time trying to put it down again due to the knackered mechanis,. I didn't even want to Freecycle it it was that knackered.
Can't help that this person just wanted to offload some junk on me.
But I am probably being ungrateful, and should remember it's the thought that counts.

I mean't isn't the kind I wanted! Duh!

YANBU, I often think this when reading those kind of threads.

My dad is like this, he's acts like he'd do anything for anyone- DIY, lending you money or his car, driving you places, helping you move etc- but it's a big facade! He's an aggressive control freak and he'd make you pay for anything he did for you.

No matter how much you thanked him, saying thank you in person, cards, thankyou gifts, favours returned, whatever, he'd tell everyone how ungrateful you were and how you didn't thank him, and you only get in touch when you want something etc- he would throw it in your face for years to come, until he'd told the story so often he thought it was true. He'd also guilt trip and bully you and tell people you were stupid if you didn't let him do anything he'd offered to do, too.

On the face of it though: lovely kind father who can't do enough for his ungrateful kids!

TOTALLY AGREE with the op!

Well, I don't think it hurts to be grateful, whatever someone's motives may be for helping you.

However, being grateful doesn't automatically involve being beholden to someone.

Oh, James
Like the Harry Enfield annoying dad, but NOT funny

At first I thought yabu, but my immediate thought wasn't the kind of "kindness" exhibited by people you can have little choice in dealing with, such as family.

My mil is "kind" to everyone, do anything for them really, she is "kind" to them because it makes her feel good, the recipient's feelings or needs don't matter at all. In fact, she bitches and moans about everyone and everybody, so I guess it's her way of being a "nice person".

I haven't read the threads in question but I agree with the gist of where this thread is going.

My IL's buy dd so much stuff, they have been asked not to, repeatedly, but she is their only grandchild and they don't see her as often as any of us would like and they seem to want to make up for that with constant presents/money/clothes. MIL has bought most of her current wardrobe and I can't justify buying anything myself as she just has so much stuff. I would love to get things for her, I don't always like what MIL buys but just grin and bear it. Perhaps I should start taking some of it back. DD is now of an age that she knows it's happening and expects and asks for her presents whenever she sees them. God I hate it and I want it to stop.

I know someone who continually makes kind gestures but then swanks around going on and on about how good and kind they are and what a good Christian etc etc - totally negates the kind act imho if one is always looking for approval for it. This woman thinks she is a saint but she so isn't.

I'm seeing a counsellor now regarding my relationship with my parents, and this is one of the issues. Being dismissive of my needs and requests, and thereby showing an apparent lack of respect. But at the same time, wanting to be praised and thanked all the time for being sooo helpful, generous, etc ... to me their daughter.
it may seem like a small issue to others, and I wouldn't be surprised if people wondered 'why can't I just brush it off and be grateful' ... it's not so simple. It really is a control thing, and like the OP said, a self-gratifying issue at hand.

I'm totally with the OP on this one - people often have very complex reasons for being "nice" when the end result is not actually helping the recipient in the slightest. Sometimes it can be a deliberate attempt to control the person's life, sometimes it's just an inability to see things from someone else's point of view. But expecting people to be grateful for something they never asked for, never wanted, and have even politely refused does say more about the "giver" than anything else.

I was on the dinner thread, saying it would have pissed me off too - and then I got slated for being such a nasty person!

fair enough i can see how that would be annoying and how some could take it as more defiant than kind i.e. showing that they are in control of the situation not you.
suppose i just have never had the problem so immediately thought YABU

I totally understand where you are coming from Welliesmum. I come from a home background where nothing is given for free;-there's always an emotional catch or payback. As a result I NEVER ask for favours/help/loans etc as I cannot stand being in anyones debt.

Now I have married a lovely man who's mother and stepfather insist on gifting him with money and things. The problem is by giving him money;-they are indirectly giving it to me which makes me feel very stressed out and unhappy. My DH's stepfather does not give from his heart but it is a tool of control. He then thinks it's ok to verbally abuse the pair of us. I keep on begging my DH to stop accepting things from them but now the babies on the way they are again offering us money and gifts and I HATE IT!!!!!!

My MIL sent me a £50 cheque for my birthday a couple of months ago which I thought was crass (AIBU??) I havent cashed it and now i'm in a hole as next time I see her she will probably ask me why, and probably be offended-cue massive family row where I am the bad person again, lol

Sometimes people are genuinely nice and want to help and are not appreciated.

Sometimes they want to be more involved in your life than you actually want for whatever reason.

Sometimes they are just controlling people who want everyone to think that they are wonderful nice helpful people but they just want to know everything about you and everyone else and control everyone and everyting about them.

Some people always have an ulterior motive and offer to do something "nice" so that they can later ask a huge favour in return. Usually they offer help when you really don't need it or just small things like walking your child to school but oh can you have my child/ren for a whole day/week in the holds!!

All help should be appreciated but sometimes there is a limit to how grateful you can act and if you suspect there is a specific reason behind it then obviously you're not going to be quite so grateful. I agree that sometimes people just don't see the big picture and jump on others in a rather judgemental way. Everyone's lives are different and some people just don't get any help at all so if they hear someone complaining then it's easy for them to think that op is being ungrateful.

Yanbu, I totally agree Welliemum.

I agree. My parents are like this. It is all about control.