To think it's okay to shoot horses?

[Angels1111]

I've always been vegetarian but I'm not sanctimonious about it. The way I see it, as my family was vegetarian it wasn't a conscious choice I made. Who knows what I'd be doing if I had been born into a family eating meat and two veg every day. I also have huge space to improve my environmental footprint...the clothes I wear have probably been stitched by kids working long hours, I don't always remember to take a bag with me to the shops, quite a lot of my diet is imported...etc..
My point is, unless we're living off the land and making our own clothes we're all affecting the environment and we can all improve where we can reduce our impact on it.

All that to say....I was watching a show with some friends about how race horses, once past their point of use, are often shot. This was accompanied by protests of "that's so sad, so cruel" etc.

I wondered how it's any different to raising a pig for food and killing it once it's fat enough. Or a chicken for eggs and killing it once it doesn't lay eggs. To me, the horse may even have had a better life than animals raised for meat, since there is an onus on the owner to make sure it's well fed and kept healthy.

Of course, ideally I'd like the horse to live out it's natural life in retirement. I'd like all animals to live out their natural lives. But I can see why that might not be feasible for the owner.

I really don't understand why some animals are okay to eat, but others aren't. Why is okay to eat pig but not dog? Why chicken but not parrot? Why cow but not horse?

Please could you educate me?

That's the thing though, animals are largely not treated humanely whilst they are alive.

What I don't agree with is animals caught purely for sport. If you are going to catch a fish with a hook you should be eating it, not just having your photo taken with it before releasing it. Likewise if you hunt a fox you should eat it.

Actually, I think I see what you mean. You can think
"Ah man, I wish we raised animals more ethically, I don't like how they suffer through their life" AND still eat the meat. It doesn't mean you agree with how it was produced.
Did I understand that correctly?

There’s a difference between pets and livestock although the edges are blurred as people have pet sheep, pigs etc. On the other hand, not many humans eat pets, although some do.

Horses for me fall into the pet category and I absolutely abhor horse racing as an industry. The problem with surplus horses, is what to do with them. There are already many in full rescues and unlike a dog or cat we don’t tend to adopt them. They also can live a long time after you can ride them and are very expensive to keep.

"we're choosing to eat flesh but hemming animals into tiny spaces and feeding them rubbish to grow as quickly as possible so that we can eat them, and there is nothing "natural" about that."
See this here is why no one will take you seriously you are lumping every producer of animal products into one homogeneous group, this is completely and utterly untrue and hyperbole. Not every producer has animals in tiny spaces and feeds them rubbish, your just spewing rubbish. There are literally thousands of producers who farm naturally.

"If we take a step back from our history with animals, it seems somewhat arbitrary to think one is far too cute to eat whilst another one is fair game. To me you either eat them all or you don't."
So why are you not eating insects, poisoned fish and crop kill? Billions of species are destroyed to make way for farming your plant products, birds/mammals/insects ect are chopped up, crushed, poisoned, starved and sprayed to get you your plant products. Other countries eat these things so why don't you?

In fact when farming plants there a billions of species decimated for you to consume your diet, if they collect all these up are they not cute enough for you to eat?

Yes exactly, it's just some cultural thing that's happened since that makes it such a terrible idea now. The same with pigeons and rabbits

Sadly, yes.

Perhaps I have been overly influenced by all the posts and documentaries sent to me persuading me to become vegan then. It seems like most cows suffer to produce milk, and I made the same assumption of the meat industry. I'm also basing this whole thing on a conversation between friends who are quite happy to eat takeaways that are definitely not made from ethically raised meat.

As I said in my original post, the most ethical way to live is to be growing your own. Yes, with farming there is going to be a lot of destruction as you need to bring pesticides into it, machine harvesting, carbon footprint of transporting the stuff all around the world. I did actually acknowledge that in my original post.

It still makes it arbitrary that it's okay to eat some animals but not others.

I worked in horse racing and my trainer wasn't particularly known for his kindness but his animals were still very well treated and we spent a year nursing one back after a leg broke in 9 places. Horses really aren't shot that often in racing unless they're very injured. Most retired ones or ones bad at racing are sold out of racing. They're a good cheap buy if you've the time to train them.

I would eat a horse if I'd known it was fairly raised and humanely slaughtered. I did eat it in central Asia where the horse is their main animal for everything.

Yes, which is why I don't buy anything factory or intensively farmed. This extends to dairy products too. And eggs. This would be true whatever the species.

This attitude I understand!

I don't see any moral difference between eating a pig and eating a dog. I eat meat, I would eat dog from a moral point of view. ( I'm not sure I would eat it from a flavour point of view, but I would if there was no alternative) I think it is morally dubious to breed animals for entertainment, including the pet industry. I have no such qualms about breeding animals for food, as that is not frivolous.

Which animals are eaten in our country is purely culturally driven. Some of the things I'd be less comfortable eating I'd probably be eating without thought if I'd grown up in a culture where it was normal. Dogs and guinea pigs, for example.

See I know people who were raised on small family farms. Their pigs and sheep did feel like family, and then when it was time they were killed for meat as that was their purpose. I find that less confusing as it's a sort of "we have to do what we need to survive" mentality whereas we are now usually eating animals for pleasure, and using them as entertainment for pleasure, and yet one is seen as okay and the other isn't.

Yes I understand it's purely cultural, but I don't understand why people get up in arms about people eating the "wrong" animal and don't see the hypocrisy of it

I think it’s more to do with the fact these horses are exploited . We breed too many in the hope of finding
‘ the one ‘ with exceptional talent , then we make as much money as we can from them , then their fate is to be shot and disposed of if they don’t have talent , break down of get too old . We aren’t breeding for meat we’re breeding for pleasure .

But most meat is also breeded for pleasure now. The amount we consume isn't necessary. The "delicacies" we eat are just for taste (the day before this conversation we'd all gone to a restaurant to eat tiny crabs... definitely not nessesary for our survival). Why is it okay to breed meat for pleasure, but not for "entertainment".

@Angels1111 So you just said "the most ethical way to live is to be growing your own."

Such a nice fairy tail and must to be nice to not have a clue, how do you suggest everyone grow their own vegetables? Most people within the UK don't have a garden, millions have no home and I'm guessing you know zero about the topography of the UK. How do you suggest we grow vegetables on the Scottish Highlands or Pennies or the Peak District for example. There is a reason these places keep sheep ect.

Many parts of the uk are not suitable, geologically, meteorologically or geographically wise to grow crops.

"It still makes it arbitrary that it's okay to eat some animals but not others."
So you think selective farming is not a viable option, if we eat one species that is abundant, why are we not eating an endangered species and think this is wrong.

Cannot you see the difference between some one thinking eating shark fin soup as against eating a bacon sandwich is comparing apples to oranges and very absurd to say? One is endangered the other is not, your broad spectrum approach is bordering on insanity.

In my mind it’s absolutely no different but I’m vegan and believe eating meat and animal products is wrong 🤷‍♀️

I would say it's not okay to breed meat for pleasure or entertainment.

I have eaten horse. Twice. Not in this country though. Once in France and once in Iceland. Both times perfectly tasty and I would have no qualms about eating it again.

Dogs and cats? No thanks, but that is mostly because I have heard suggestions that it is not good to eat other carnivores.

I admit I would find it hard to eat guinea pig because we kept them as pets, but rabbit is fine. I have eaten rabbit on a number of occasions.

I agree OP. It’s the hypocrisy.

So many people are dog daft “fur baby” dogs should be allowed everywhere brigade, yet they’ll happily eat a chicken dinner in the next breath. An animals life is only worth more if it’s cute and fluffy is the moto.

The entitlement of many dog owners is astonishing and it’s ever increasing with the demand for them since covid.

Also the fact so many of these designer dogs have difficulty breathing etc but fuck that as long as they look cute….”I’m an animal lover!” Oh aye, yet as each passing breath your pug exhales, you can hear that rattle because it’s nose is squashed in to its head, it can barely breath properly- poor thing, but aye, you’re an animal lover when it’s suits.

It’s the epitome of human greed and selfishness. We’re a menace to our own and animals.

🤣

Perhaps not working in the same way as horses and dogs. But we’ve used cats for thousands of years to keep pests away. On ships, farms, houses etc. We tolerated their presence in our homes because they helped us keep pest numbers down.

How many dolphins and sharks have you seen that are cute and fluffy? 🙄

Its culture and different cultures have wide ranging views on both what animals can be eaten and how animals are treated.

I’ve got no time for anyone clutching pearls about people who eat dogs, that’s just xenophobia, but I would personally struggle to order dog on a menu. That’s cos its culturally a bit taboo here tho, it’s not cos it’s wrong