Page 5 | To think this journalist from the independent is rather deluded ?

sashh · 08/08/2025 08:49

That is something an abusive parent would do.

I was forever being put in inappropriate embarrassing situations by my mother.

TheKeatingFive · 08/08/2025 08:50

PlanetJanette · 08/08/2025 08:40

So why do their job adverts require staff to ‘proactively’ engage with customers?

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Have you ever been to an M&S? They do not approach you unprompted, in the main. M&S staff staff have confirmed (on here and on X) that the policy is to facilitate peaceful browsing

The do talk and chat at the till, the changing rooms, returns section, I expect that's what's they mean in the ad. They are very helpful and friendly when asked for help.

Perhaps there are very specific circumstances where they see a customer who needs intervention and they are trained to do.

A man, approaching a 14 year old, unprompted while shopping for bras would not be one of those circumstances.

TheKeatingFive · 08/08/2025 08:52

sashh · 08/08/2025 08:49

That is something an abusive parent would do.

I was forever being put in inappropriate embarrassing situations by my mother.

This is the thing. Do these women not understand what they're doing to their children? Or do they understand perfectly, but do it anyway?

FinanceLPlates · 08/08/2025 08:52

PlanetJanette · 08/08/2025 07:43

By on the record I mean quoted from the M&S email. Because what the mother is claiming is contrary to how M&S says it operates.

As for the offer to draw a diagram I’m not sure how that changes the basic contradiction between the mothers certainty that the employee could not see her but also her statement that she could see the employee come over. Also she needs to get her story straight - she simultaneously claims she saw the employee approach and that the first perception of the employee was hearing their voice. Which is it?

Of course this is all beside the point. What is not beside the point is that an employee - regardless of sex - asking an adult and her teenage daughter if they need help and withdrawing when the help is declined is perfectly normal customer service.

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Whatever happened to “We believe you”?

TheKeatingFive · 08/08/2025 08:52

PlanetJanette · 08/08/2025 08:45

Of course it matters. Because the whole inappropriateness hinges on claims that the employee approached a lone teenager to ask if she needed help.

The only ‘proof’ of that is the claim of an anonymous mother who, assuming the anonymous Twitter handle is actually her, clearly has a longstanding axe to grind against trans people. So if the mother’s story is riddled with more holes than Swiss cheese then it becomes and even less of a solid basis to publicly shame and smear a (probably entirely identifiable) person for doing their job.

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clearly has a longstanding axe to grind against trans people

This is absolute nonsense, where are you getting that from?

Countdown2023 · 08/08/2025 08:53

PlanetJanette · 08/08/2025 08:45

Of course it matters. Because the whole inappropriateness hinges on claims that the employee approached a lone teenager to ask if she needed help.

The only ‘proof’ of that is the claim of an anonymous mother who, assuming the anonymous Twitter handle is actually her, clearly has a longstanding axe to grind against trans people. So if the mother’s story is riddled with more holes than Swiss cheese then it becomes and even less of a solid basis to publicly shame and smear a (probably entirely identifiable) person for doing their job.

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I don’t think that gets away from the fact that safeguarding training now needs to be considered by retailers. It is far too easy for those with inappropriate intentions to access young people and I am not saying that this was the case in M&S.

There have been far too many instances of paedophiles hiding in plain sight, sometimes with police friends eg Stephen Ireland of Surrey Pride and the Surrey Police

PlanetJanette · 08/08/2025 08:54

Countdown2023 · 08/08/2025 08:48

M&S are introducing gender neutral toilets and changing rooms to their stores.

They need to consider the possibility of potential harm to young people and vulnerable adults. It’s all very well being inclusive but M&S now have to accept the other risks that go with this.

It’s interesting that on another thread it was mentioned that Rigby&Peller(?) staff have to have a DBS check for fitting under-16s even with a parent present.

Why is bra fitting relevant here? The employee did not offer a fitting service and there’s no indication that they have any involvement with that service, which requires specific skills and training.

I’ve no idea what M&S approach to hiring bra fitters is but it seems entirely irrelevant to this particular employee.

myplace · 08/08/2025 08:54

cosimarama · 07/08/2025 17:33

According to the mother, the child was looking at underwear and appeared to be alone (mother out of sight) when she was approached from behind by the employee - who she said they both knew was a man - asking the girl if she needed help. The mother seemingly showed herself to say “no, thanks” or similar and the employee quickly walked away with no response. The mother said the girl was upset to be asked by a man if she wanted help with underwear. These additional details were given by the mother on X. She emailed the company asking for a new policy whereby male staff don’t approach children about underwear and was given an apology and was told this particular staff member should have been in a different area of the store and does not work in the lingerie department. The underwear section in this store is on a different floor to the sections where the staff member works. Obviously many responding comments are centred around the fact M&S staff don’t approach customers - even in the departments they work in. This employee broke this policy to approach a young teen girl who wasn’t seeking help in the (obviously more sensitive) lingerie department, where they don’t actually work. Their response was unusual when the mother appeared. The devil is in the detail in this case.

I find it so interesting that many many posters rush to feel empathy for the Trans employee and fill in the details of the story in their imagination- may not be trans, just offered to help, perfectly innocent, like offering to help with bacon etc.

No empathy for the mother and daughter who have said the employee was a man, he approached the girl who appeared to be alone in the lingerie department.
Those are facts, undisputed by M&S. the details you fill in from context- M&S don’t have staff hanging around offering to help. They are engaged in tasks, you seek them out of you need them; ‘help’ in a lingerie department inevitably means talking about underwear, not bacon; men should not approach young girls under any circumstances but the most dire.

So where is the empathy for a mother and daughter who were alarmed by a man trying to discuss underwear with an unaccompanied child?

Where is the empathy? Why is it all directed to the employee?

TheKeatingFive · 08/08/2025 08:54

I see @PlanetJanette has pivoted from 'this is perfectly reasonable behaviour' to 'the mother is lying'.

In the space of just a few posts 🙄

PlanetJanette · 08/08/2025 08:55

TheKeatingFive · 08/08/2025 08:52

clearly has a longstanding axe to grind against trans people

This is absolute nonsense, where are you getting that from?

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Her purported Twitter feed.

TheKeatingFive · 08/08/2025 08:56

PlanetJanette · 08/08/2025 08:55

Her purported Twitter feed.

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What there indicates a longstanding axe to grind?

PlanetJanette · 08/08/2025 08:56

TheKeatingFive · 08/08/2025 08:54

I see @PlanetJanette has pivoted from 'this is perfectly reasonable behaviour' to 'the mother is lying'.

In the space of just a few posts 🙄

No. It has remained it is perfectly reasonably behaviour because the claims made by the mother that could render it unreasonable do not stack up.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 08/08/2025 08:56

PlanetJanette · 08/08/2025 08:55

Her purported Twitter feed.

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Axe to grind against trans people, or boundary pushing inappropriate acting men?

AnSolas · 08/08/2025 08:57

Notsosure1 · 08/08/2025 07:55

I was thinking this. It could have been offering to help as in find a particular bra in her size or colour preference, or locate a woman who is available to carry out a bra fitting. As long as he stayed out the changing rooms what’s the problem?

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A male walks up to a teen girl and offers to help so asks her what size her breasts are.

A male walks up to a teen girl and offers to help so asks her what colour material would she like covering her breasts.

A male walks up to a teen girl and offers to help by finding someone to measure her breasts.

You were thinking as long as the male stayed out the changing rooms what’s the problem?

TheKeatingFive · 08/08/2025 08:58

PlanetJanette · 08/08/2025 08:56

No. It has remained it is perfectly reasonably behaviour because the claims made by the mother that could render it unreasonable do not stack up.

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We can all see what you're doing.

PlanetJanette · 08/08/2025 09:00

Countdown2023 · 08/08/2025 08:53

I don’t think that gets away from the fact that safeguarding training now needs to be considered by retailers. It is far too easy for those with inappropriate intentions to access young people and I am not saying that this was the case in M&S.

There have been far too many instances of paedophiles hiding in plain sight, sometimes with police friends eg Stephen Ireland of Surrey Pride and the Surrey Police

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Maybe - but creating a pile on on a specific and easily identifiable individual based on the say so of an anonymous person whose story is riddled with holes is a totally irresponsible and reprehensible way to make that point.

Soontobe60 · 08/08/2025 09:01

RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie · 06/08/2025 19:03

Exactly

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I have NEVER in 65 years been approached by any member of staff in the bra section asking if they can help me. Let alone a man. A man who wasn’t in his section. A man who was pretending to be a woman. Your pathetic excuse for such a man speaks volumes about where your priorities lie.

TheKeatingFive · 08/08/2025 09:01

PlanetJanette · 08/08/2025 09:00

Maybe - but creating a pile on on a specific and easily identifiable individual based on the say so of an anonymous person whose story is riddled with holes is a totally irresponsible and reprehensible way to make that point.

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I don't see any holes in her story

PlanetJanette · 08/08/2025 09:01

AnSolas · 08/08/2025 08:57

A male walks up to a teen girl and offers to help so asks her what size her breasts are.

A male walks up to a teen girl and offers to help so asks her what colour material would she like covering her breasts.

A male walks up to a teen girl and offers to help by finding someone to measure her breasts.

You were thinking as long as the male stayed out the changing rooms what’s the problem?

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But none of that happened did it?

The employee offered help. It was declined. They left. That’s it.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 08/08/2025 09:03

No teen needs help or needs to be offered any ‘help’ from any male employee in a lingerie department. From a nice well meaning man, from the worst man to walk the planet, from a man cosplaying as a woman.

It’s not difficult.

AnSolas · 08/08/2025 09:04

hiintrepidheroes · 08/08/2025 08:20

It is common practice for staff to cover multiple departments and areas. It really is getting to the point where simply offering customer assistance isn’t ok by some people now.

Shop layouts can be confusing so offering basic help, regardless of shop area, is basic customer service.

I am calling this out for what it is, transphobia.

I work in retail, we have male colleagues in the prep area behind the scenes working deliveries. That includes unpacking and handling bras and underwear.

We have male colleagues specialised in baby car seats and working in the children’s departments.

Being male or female, trans or not, has no effect on their ability to do their job. Believe me, colleagues would talk and report if there was any concern over a colleague.

Nope, I do not believe that you would report a male colleague who went up to a young teen age girl and attempted to speak to her about her underwear.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 08/08/2025 09:04

PlanetJanette · 08/08/2025 09:01

But none of that happened did it?

The employee offered help. It was declined. They left. That’s it.

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It wasn’t it. His inappropriate behaviour made her feel uncomfortable. THAT IS IT.

TheKeatingFive · 08/08/2025 09:05

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 08/08/2025 09:03

No teen needs help or needs to be offered any ‘help’ from any male employee in a lingerie department. From a nice well meaning man, from the worst man to walk the planet, from a man cosplaying as a woman.

It’s not difficult.

It genuinely blows my mind that people are pretending they don't know that. It's so basic. What the hell happened to these people?

Soontobe60 · 08/08/2025 09:07

PlanetJanette · 07/08/2025 20:46

So much BS on this story.

Have a look at this from a live M&S advert for a customer assistant in clothing and homeware. One of the tasks is to: "Proactively engage with customers to understand their needs, make recommendations and deliver remarkable service throughout their visit to store." (emphasis is mine). So this employee was adhering to what M&S expects their customer service staff to do.

There is no suggestion that the employee offered to, or wanted to, or was even qualified to do a bra fitting as has been claimed.

The mother claims that she was stood close to her daughter. So the employee approached an adult and her child to ask if they needed help. In line with the expectations of M&S for their employees. And when they said no thank you, she left them to it.

Oh and the claims that the employee only worked in a different Department is also wide of the mark. M&S have confirmed that “We have written to this customer and explained that our colleagues typically work across all departments in our stores and customers can always ask to speak to the colleague they feel most comfortable with.”

Let's park the fact that it's not been confirmed that the employee was trans. That is besides the point. The point is that a trans employee approaching an adult and her teenage daughter to ask if they needed help (which can be anything from advice on products, directions, facilitating booking a fitting), in line with their employer's job description, and accepting it when they said no, is behaving entirely appropriately.

Sorry Jan, you’ve lost the plot when you use an article from Pink News to back up your opinion…

myplace · 08/08/2025 09:08

PlanetJanette · 08/08/2025 09:01

But none of that happened did it?

The employee offered help. It was declined. They left. That’s it.

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There is no help a man can offer a teenage girl in a lingerie department inevitably

Without causing a scandal. That’s it.