Thread 13: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

[DisappointedReader]

The Observer's original exposé: The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...

The 12 Observer reports currently available online: The real Salt Path | The Observer

Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement: Raynor Winn

Thread One ^www.mumsnet.com/talk/amibeingunreasonable/5368194-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?^

Threads 2-11: Links all in the OP of Thread 12

Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5384574-thread-12-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

New posters joining us in the genuine spirit of our civil discourse welcome. It would be helpful to read at least some of the Observer items above before posting. There are currently 12 interesting items on The Observer website and linked to above.

To all - Please be extremely cautious when it comes to naming or implicating people and addresses not in the public eye or with no direct connection to the story, and around the understandable health speculations, especially where details are unclear or still emerging. Please do not engage with visitors who seem to have their own agenda and seek to derail. Avoid @'ing and quoting them as - from experience - this will only encourage them back to the threads. We have done amazingly well together for twelve very interesting, very serious and very silly threads so far. I can't be here as much as I'd like so all help with keeping our discussion walking along in our usual reasonable and respectful fashion is very welcome.

Have the sales or thefts of fudge gone up recently?
Will Simon's head ever turn up?
Has the shed of doubt yet burst at the seams?
Will the old charabanc hold up as a tour bus for our hip new band The Drive-By Scolders?
And finally, how much salt can we possibly cram into a giant pinch?

Keep to the path. No saltiness. May the fudge be with you.

Of course they were not trying to catch out the author, and I never said they were.

What I said was that in trying to prevent potential legal recourse from harming someone's reputation they would have had to look into the court case, and if they had taken one look at the judgment they would inevitably have seen that what happened was very different from the TSP version.

And the death certificate from someone who was not the claimant in the court case would not have changed that, it would just have caused further questions, like "wtf does a loan from a completely different person than the one who supposedly took you to court over an investment have to do with it, dear SalRay?"

They are either the most inept lawyers on this planet or they are complicit in her lies.

You have to wonder if the Army can give unauthorised lifts - security? Rules?

Not really on point, but I'm so impressed with these threads - the range of skills and experience and of the participants, the quality of thought and analysis, and the constructive and polite interchange. Thanks everyone for a fascinating read. 😀

I've sent you a PM @Catwith69lives

Ok

I think it's 2013 on the sign. The cut off lower loop of the 3 is not the same as the lower loop of the 5 . Although the 5 is a removable digit so may be slightly different to the permanent one painted on the top of the sign...

I agree there is peeling paint visible on the sign in both years. It's more difficult to see in the selfie because of the angle and the poor light but I think it's there.

Hmm. Not sure now! It could be either.

I got Landlines from a charity shop today for 50p - cheap at the price. I expect to see Landlines and The Wild Silence coming into charities now but not The Salt Path because that's the notorious title and people will try and sell them until it goes quiet. All 3 books are in a local secondhand bookshop: TSP for £3 and the other 2 for £2.50.

I'm quite shocked at some of the reviews for LL including The Guardian which has some tough arts critics. This one's a cracker on LL: "Winn seems to have .....a keen eye for detail, particularly for social justice. Hers is a voice of empathy and integrity." These critics seem to have got caught up in the narrative.

I agree and there is an Aug 2015 photo showing the same arm having peeling paint. I think it gets a lot of wind, rain and people changing the lettering on that arm so paint can chip at any time and it id regularly repainted.

The biggest check is the shape of the last digit on the round bit of the sign. I think it looks like a 3 not a 5 as in the below photo.

Why would Ray remove (?) such an innocuous photo from Insta ?

Is it plausible the actors would rush off stage in costume,

Don't know about the rest, but no show I've been involved in would have people leaving in costume - especially to somewhere like the pub which could easily end with the costume damaged/stained.
But also because if people take the costume away you end up with the situation I've had a couple of times where a key actor has announced they've forgotten their trousers or something rather necessary 5 minutes before curtain up.

If anyone knows what the costumes were like, because unless they were basically wearing modern clothes and coming in their own gear (not hired) and stuff they'd have spare, then it might just about be possible.

I tried doing a quick google, and found a couple with men in black tie, which I would expect to be left at the theatre, but could be their own outfits. I'd be unimpressed if I was the costume lady though because a pint of beer down a suit would be a hassle to sort.

However I did find a FB post from 2024 with a question added right at the end of the comments:
"The Camdram performance makes an appearance in The Salt Path by Raynor Winn. I wonder if anybody in that production remembers taking them in their van after the play finished as described in the book."
Posted yesterday!

Maybe because the date is ambiguous because of the cropping? And she doesn't want to leave up anything that is arguable, even if true?

I don't know, I'm just speculating. Do we know if there is an original photo that does include the date and doesn't cut off half of Moth? In other words do we know if this photo has been edited? I know my selfies are pretty rubbish most of time and I often don't get the framing right.

I think what it shows is that the PRH legal team was happy that the Walkers claim that that they were changing details and identifies to protect other people’s privacy where necessary was covered by their disclaimer.

The weather looks hazy in the photo. This does seem to fit with the weather in Land's End that evening.
www.timeanddate.com/weather/@2644961/historic?month=9&year=2013

What about 15 Sept 2015?

I agree. I looked into the weather previously. RW described it as a storm and gales. In reality it was rainy and 20mph gust. So clear embellishment there!

But I think it's 2013 on the sign anyway.

Passing cloud.
www.timeanddate.com/weather/@2644961/historic?month=9&year=2015

Libel is not covered under a disclaimer that "some names were changed" if the person remains identifiable, which 'Cooper' would have been if he existed and the court case had happened as SW claimed it did.

One small anomaly - in TSP SW says the cast of shepherds, innkeepers and fairies chatted away in the back of the van en route to the pub after the performance. As far as I'm aware there aren't any innkeepers in the cast of Iolanthe.

Which is why, presumably, they invented him.

What time were they there?

I'd say the photo looks misty, but the ground is dry.
Weather in 2013: midnight - clear; 6am - mostly cloudy; 12noon - mostly cloudy, drizzle; 6pm haze

Weather in 2015: midnight - mostly cloudy, rain showers; 6am - scattered clouds; 12noon - broken clouds, drizzle; 6pm - passing clouds

It could be haze in the background, or it could be rain over the sea. On average I'd go for the 2013 weather, but if it was shown to be 2015, then I wouldn't feel it was totally impossible - 6 hours between forecasts does leave an awful lot of room for changes.

For example I looked at the last day photo on 28th December 2023, and it looks less foggy/hazy than their picture, but the forecast is overcast at 6am, fog at midday and passing clouds at 6pm.

So I'm not sure the weather is that helpful to say anything other than it doesn't disprove 2013.

I've sent you a PM @PrettyDamnCosmic

I don't think there are many shepherds-Strephon (main character) is a shepherd, his beloved Phyllis is a shepherdess, but the ladies chorus are fairies and the men chorus are peers.

Sounds like she got confused with a Nativity play. 🤣

Interesting. Hadn't spotted that. Though it seems an odd addition/mistake if the story was made up and based on only what RW could look up.

Can you ascertain if the image has been cropped and what the aspect ratio (16:9) is of the image. If its been cropped then there must be a reason.

That is exactly the sort of thing a copy editor should pick up! Poor work from PRH.