to want to shout out 'OIL is not a never ending resource and it IS going to run out'

[beaniesteve]

Because I am fed up with all the emails I am getting about this Boycott and that protest. Before long Petrol will be so expensive that people will have to start looking at alternative methods of transport. We will have to get on our bikes, or use public transport regardless of how rubbish it is or how far away it is.

Am I being unreasonable to think that people just need to get real?

**NB this is in no way a comment about the other AIBU thread about Deisel, I only just noticed that one was at the top of the page)

sorry: regulated enought so that all the land wasn't taken over for biofuels

[sigh]

Two things; driving carefully really does make a considerable difference to your fuel consumption, a good 20% and its much less stressful. Before lobbying for reduced fuel tax I think we should all slow right down and drive more economically. 2nd thing- today with DD1 we were in one bus when it collided with another! First time that's happened but it reminded me how unpleasant it often is on public transport with DCs. They're not expensive here in London, 90p with oyster, free for kids, but on short journeys the petrol will have to get even more expensive to be worth the hassle.

Buses are great in London..however even there they and the tube have gone up in price in recent years.The Tube is pretty expensive even with Oyster really..£5.40 peak travel card is quite a bit, say if you were on minimum wage as most of my staff are unfortunately..But then to get a bus say from North to South London would take about 2 hours so they are forced on to the Tube sometimes...

Buses are more plentiful and cheaper in London than elsewhere and someone was wondering how this is possible (sorry I forget who)Council Tax.Humungous apparently..(we have moved out now but still work in town..so I dont know the figures..That said at least you are paying your council tax anf getting a good service back I guess?)

Biofuels aren't the panacea they're made out to be. One of the reasons for the hike in food prices (as well as fuel going up and more people in the developing world being able to afford to eat meat) is that vast tracts of land in various countries are being used to grow bio-fuels, which once grew food. So less food = higher prices.

And deforestation. Huge deforestation to produce the raw materials/crop for the biofuels.

'eh? run out? This is a joke right!! I never listen to the arguments about finite resources as I'm too busy revving my chelsea tractor whilst I'm stuck in traffic

at Posieparker.

That's what I mean about regulating the allocation of land to biofuels though.

I thought most of the prices rises were predominantly due to the price of fuel going up?

Surely there would never be a point that food crops were in overly short supply, as soon as there's a potential gap in supply in the market, it would be filled again so achieving some sort of balance?

Sorry if this is a very simplistic view, but surely there's got to be some sort of solution through the use of biofuels or other. As this thread shows, relying on public transport just isn't an option for so many people and when the oil's gawn the oil's gawn.

I just want to back up a little to something evenhope said: "So everyone in Britain is forced back to the dark ages to conserve oil so that everyone in China can drive a car?"

Would you care to explain why the fuck you think you're entitled to a better standard of living than Chinese people?

Only the Daily Mail believes white people get first dibs on fucking everything.

You have two cars in your family. I am looking out into my street in Shanghai and doing a rough count I would say there are five bicycles and a further three or four motor scooters for every car. My husband went to see a prototype fully electric car last week. 4x4s are taxed to extinction and it costs 4,000 quid to put a car on the road in Shanghai. That's before any annual road tax - just a one-off upfront tax, so anyone whingeing about the congestion charge can ponder that. China knows the oil isn't going to last forever and is doing a damn sight more about it than Britain is.

"Surely there would never be a point that food crops were in overly short supply, as soon as there's a potential gap in supply in the market, it would be filled again so achieving some sort of balance?"

Indeed but it would not happen instantly. Significantly increasing agricultural production requires a second green revolution with technology that is, as yet, unimaginable.

Even if yields could be increased dramatically - if rich people are buying up grains to feed their SUVs poor people will starve. But you are right, the market will eventually balance reaching an equilibrium. That argument was used in Westminster in the mid 1800s and at least a million Irish people died while the markets found their new balance.

But if you are rational and self interested like a good economist, and so don't care much about famines, your argument holds.

ninedragons, what a load of rubbish. I frequent China at least once a year and am well aware of the numerous gas guzzlers, 4x4s and other super cars that speed wrecklessly around their roads. People of China have no idea about the environment or world affairs, in general, the country has far too much going on to worry about everyone else. I wonder if you even have any idea about the floating bodies in the damns where the earthquake has been? I am amazed and worried about the general ignorance I find in China, I even met someone who though black people had green blood.

Oil is not going to run out. But it may get very expensive. And that will probably drive us to nuclear, which is probably a good thing, both for the environment and for reasons of national security.

Agree, oil will not suddenly run out.

As supply dwindles, the price goes up, and this in turn reduces demand. The result is that our known reserves last a bit longer. We've been predicting oil running out for year, but supply/demand economics keeps it going long enough to find new oilfields and develop alternative technologies.

AtheneNoctua - there is not enough Uranium and Thorium out there to allow nuclear take over from oil.

Unless of course new technology like fusion makes it possible

wigparty part of the reason for food prices going up is the price of fuel which has a knock-on effect, that's true. But that's the only bit the media has been focussing on recently. The use of land for bio-fuels is another factor, as is the growing wealth of China and India, leading to greater meat consumption. Then there have also been bad harvests to add to the mix. Even if oil production was stepped up, the other pressures on food prices would still be there.

I agree, upwind. But, better to have our eggs in two baskets than one while we develop other technologies.

athenenoctura - interesting article here if you believe that nuclear power is a 'green' solution. Nuclear power is a short term solution with an everlasting legacy. It can never be fully safe, it will always be a target for terrorism. We can't work out what to do with the nuclear waste we have now never mind any we might create in the future.

I didn't say it was perfect. Just that it is the only existing alternative we have. By all means, support research into other forms of energy. But, also plan for the short term whilst those other forms are developed.

i will happily chuck my car in when I have an alternative form of transportations which is:
1- reliable (shows up when it is supposed to)
2- has a reasonable schedule (i.e. don't have to wait an hour for the next bus when this one drives by half empty but the bus driver didn't feel like stopping)
3- is affordable
I can get to/from work in no less than two trains/buses with less than 20 minute layover.

My work is too far to ride a bike and would take at least an hour and a half to get there on public transportation. It takes 35 minutes by car. So,that an hour of my time lost to transportation, which will then cost me yet even more money (time not spent at work is money lost for both me and Gordon).

I have just priced this journey and it would be £200 per month. And that would only cover my journey to an from work. Forget trips to store, school, church, bank, shopping, etc. So, really, my travel would cost me (and I'm guessing here) more like £400 per month to get around West London.

I actually live a bit west of west London, so the transport links aren't great. I think it is about 8 miles.