Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Economically inactive people……

235 replies

Watermelonnice · 02/08/2025 18:23

AIBU to think that the government needs to clarify who they mean when they say that they want to reduce the number of people who are economically inactive?

And to think they need to differentiate between the reasons for economic inactivity, including providing numbers who fall into each category.

It’s lazy to make this a headline without taking into account the different reasons and specifying who they mean.

Presumably they mean people who are unemployed, but economically inactive could include students, carers, disabled people, stay at home parents and those who have retired early.

Some will be reliant on the state for support but many will be completely self reliant and not claiming a thing from the government.

Why aren’t the government clearer on who they mean? Do they think they’ll persuade people who have retired early and others who have enough income without claiming any benefits to restart work?

OP posts:
FortheloveofCheesus · 03/08/2025 06:46

Its not hard maths

We need a higher proportion of the population to be in paid work, paying NI contributions. The government don't care who the extra people to work are we need more people in paid work.

Less people to be:

  • off sick
  • retired early
  • underemployed
  • neets
  • sahp - especially anyone with older children who is really a housewife
  • living off hobby businesses that bring in little money topped up by benefits
dottiedodah · 03/08/2025 06:56

Many people are not working for different reasons. I think RR was trying to target neets those youngsters who are not in employment or work
Older people maybe too.DH has retired I am in remission from Cancer so get tired.lots of appointments too.befote I was ill he looked for a job after 40 years at work! Mostly no reply.general feeling too old.he had a private pension and pays tax

FortheloveofCheesus · 03/08/2025 07:01

In their eyes I'm economically inactive as I'm a carer for my youngest DD. A place to get me back to work would be economically stupid given what it would cost to have her in full time care.

You are getting confused. You are thinking of the financial benefit to your own family being limited if you returned to work (due to cost of care). For most sahp/carer, its more economically productive for you to be in paid work, producing more for the economy, and for children to be in group childcare (employing more people).

FortheloveofCheesus · 03/08/2025 07:04

A lot of older people will say they can't find a job because they are expecting to stay at the same seniority and high pay they attained in their 40s.

We need to normalise the last decade or so of our working lives being a shift back to lower responsibility work as we can manage less. Like it or not we become more physically and mentally impaired in our 60s but that doesn't mean we need to do nothing paid at all.

It would be better if early retirees cared for their grandchildren freeing up their DC to work, for example.

Bubblesgun · 03/08/2025 07:09

Watermelonnice · 02/08/2025 18:23

AIBU to think that the government needs to clarify who they mean when they say that they want to reduce the number of people who are economically inactive?

And to think they need to differentiate between the reasons for economic inactivity, including providing numbers who fall into each category.

It’s lazy to make this a headline without taking into account the different reasons and specifying who they mean.

Presumably they mean people who are unemployed, but economically inactive could include students, carers, disabled people, stay at home parents and those who have retired early.

Some will be reliant on the state for support but many will be completely self reliant and not claiming a thing from the government.

Why aren’t the government clearer on who they mean? Do they think they’ll persuade people who have retired early and others who have enough income without claiming any benefits to restart work?

Stay at home parents are very economically active.
in an equal relationship and I mean equal: one parent works to earn the family money the other one run the home and the kids. The person who runs the home usually does the spending as more time.

so whilst they havent earned, they are very economically active so I hope they havent included them. That d be stupid.

echt · 03/08/2025 07:11

FortheloveofCheesus · 03/08/2025 07:04

A lot of older people will say they can't find a job because they are expecting to stay at the same seniority and high pay they attained in their 40s.

We need to normalise the last decade or so of our working lives being a shift back to lower responsibility work as we can manage less. Like it or not we become more physically and mentally impaired in our 60s but that doesn't mean we need to do nothing paid at all.

It would be better if early retirees cared for their grandchildren freeing up their DC to work, for example.

Do you have any evidence that older people have this view about not being able to find a job?
What kind of work do you have in mind for the physically and mentally impaired in their 60s? You state it as if it were universal and undisputed that this happens to them?
Who would want such people looking after their grandchildren?

FortheloveofCheesus · 03/08/2025 07:13

I think that actually students need to be looked at as well.
The push to extend education and make people get university degrees for jobs where they are not actually required takes a huge number of people out of the workforce during what could be some of their most economically useful years.

Agree

Also students don't seem to work any more? Most people i knew either had a term time job or worked every vacation. As a uni student worked long hours in a factory every summer, pub shifts over Christmas and Easter. Whereas now students all seem to swan off on holiday every time the term ends.

The government need to make is easier for business to hire 16 year olds too. The ones i know are all desperate for part time jobs but no one will hire them. Why is this? When i was 16 everyone worked, in shops, pubs, petrol stations, anywhere.

echt · 03/08/2025 07:14

Whereas now students all seem to swan off on holiday every time the term ends

Do you have any evidence for this?

FortheloveofCheesus · 03/08/2025 07:17

Stay at home parents are very economically active.

No, they aren't. Spending money does not equal economic productivity.

Economic productivity is the value of you work beyond you getting paid - its your output, what you produce, services you deliver. It does not include the basics of human beings surviving as a species eg caring for offspring.

Added in their are swathes of people who start out as a sahp then 15 years later the kids are teens who do not need childcare 9-5 yet one parent is still not working.

FortheloveofCheesus · 03/08/2025 07:18

Whereas now students all seem to swan off on holiday every time the term ends
Do you have any evidence for this?

Student nieces and nephews, plus working for a business which used to have lots of students each summer and now has none.

echt · 03/08/2025 07:19

FortheloveofCheesus · 03/08/2025 07:18

Whereas now students all seem to swan off on holiday every time the term ends
Do you have any evidence for this?

Student nieces and nephews, plus working for a business which used to have lots of students each summer and now has none.

Anecdata. Lay off the sweeping generalisations then.

FortheloveofCheesus · 03/08/2025 07:21

Do you have any evidence that older people have this view about not being able to find a job?

This is a forum. Im allowed to share opinions based on anecdata, what older friends/ neighbours say. I also get lots of older people applying for very senior/highly paid roles in my team but their skills are outdated, they no longer have the skills to keep up with younger applicants. They never apply for the lower paid roles we have, only ever the ones on top pay and recruiters tell me its hard to explain to older people that 30 years experience doesn't entitle them to the senior roles.

Chocja · 03/08/2025 07:24

Without Making retrospective changes to private pensions and ISAs, I find it hard to think how they are going to force the independently wealthy back to work.

This is something I have been aiming for and yes it is selfish on a grand level, I don’t want to be working in a job that I don’t love until I’m 68.

I won’t be claiming benefits when the time comes and no children so I won’t be looking after grandkids either.

I might do a part time role IF there is something that I would enjoy but why would anyone want to work a long week in a job that they don’t enjoy for money if they don’t need to?

echt · 03/08/2025 07:27

FortheloveofCheesus · 03/08/2025 07:21

Do you have any evidence that older people have this view about not being able to find a job?

This is a forum. Im allowed to share opinions based on anecdata, what older friends/ neighbours say. I also get lots of older people applying for very senior/highly paid roles in my team but their skills are outdated, they no longer have the skills to keep up with younger applicants. They never apply for the lower paid roles we have, only ever the ones on top pay and recruiters tell me its hard to explain to older people that 30 years experience doesn't entitle them to the senior roles.

So why didn't you say that instead of "A lot of older people will say they can't find a job because they are expecting to stay at the same seniority and high pay they attained in their 40s"? The context of the firm you work would be useful. It turns "a lot" into "some I've encountered in my work".

Presenting anecdote as fact is very unhelpful.

BusMumsHoliday · 03/08/2025 07:31

FortheloveofCheesus · 03/08/2025 07:18

Whereas now students all seem to swan off on holiday every time the term ends
Do you have any evidence for this?

Student nieces and nephews, plus working for a business which used to have lots of students each summer and now has none.

I work in a university. Lots of students work. Some in holidays, some in term time, some doing nearly full time hours to stay afloat. I don't think they're "economically inactive." Plus, we need them to be studying so that we have the "net contributors" of the future not to mention the drs, nurses, teachers that we need. Also, as they are now paying their fees, they're not getting "supported by the state".

I think the large number of economically inactive people (and I also hate this term) is a short term problem. We've got a number of people in their early 60 who were able to pay off mortgages, save and have pension in final salary schemes. That won't be the case in future years.

echt · 03/08/2025 07:34

According to this, job vacancies are falling for the third year in a row, so not sure how all the economically inactive can be taken on. Yes, I get that full employment doesn't mean everyone has a paid job: Australia had it for a microsecond earlier this year.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cg754negn75o

A woman with long black hair in two plaits wearing a black beanie hat, khaki hoodie and navy quilted bodywarmer working as a mechanic with her oil covered hands inside the engine of a car with its bonnet up

UK jobs market weakens as unemployment rate rises

The official data shows wage growth has slowed while the number of vacancies continues to fall.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cg754negn75o

Aprilrainagainagain · 03/08/2025 07:40

I have a friend who has three children none of which work as in pay any kind of tax. Two make things to sell on Etsy but she says it’s very little. They contribute nothing to the household and she has to maintain them. Her third child is an artist although he doesn’t produce any income. They range from 22 to 29. Her husband works freelance in the film industry. He hasn’t had any income for 18 months and makes no effort to get work. She is working full time and occasionally works another job to bring in money.

If I was her I’d leave and let them all be creative and homeless. Utter wastes of space.

Mavvera · 03/08/2025 07:40

I don't think a lot of the jobs that need filling are in the private sector, they seem to be getting rid of people. They maybe want early retired teachers to get back in the classroom.

Fifthtimelucky · 03/08/2025 07:47

bindin · 02/08/2025 18:59

Do they think they’ll persuade people who have retired early and others who have enough income without claiming any benefits to restart work?

I pretty sure the ones who retired early are from lower incomes but it's due to ill health.

I retired early. I am now 64 and I have a reasonable occupational pension. My husband, who is 10 years older, has a better occupational pension and a state pension. We both pay income tax and I am also making voluntary NI contributions to make up for the years I lost by retiring early.

There are no health reasons preventing me from going back to work, but I’m afraid I have no intention of doing so.

CornflowerDusk · 03/08/2025 07:51

Watermelonnice · 02/08/2025 18:23

AIBU to think that the government needs to clarify who they mean when they say that they want to reduce the number of people who are economically inactive?

And to think they need to differentiate between the reasons for economic inactivity, including providing numbers who fall into each category.

It’s lazy to make this a headline without taking into account the different reasons and specifying who they mean.

Presumably they mean people who are unemployed, but economically inactive could include students, carers, disabled people, stay at home parents and those who have retired early.

Some will be reliant on the state for support but many will be completely self reliant and not claiming a thing from the government.

Why aren’t the government clearer on who they mean? Do they think they’ll persuade people who have retired early and others who have enough income without claiming any benefits to restart work?

This is what politicians do. Build narrative around words that are largely meaningless.

I would argue that no one is economically inactive.

mylittlekomododragon · 03/08/2025 08:05

@FourIsNewSixEarly retiree here who definitely pays tax on her pension!

Mischance · 03/08/2025 08:08

Our local and wider community runs on the time gifted by the economically inactive.
I am retired and I:

  • pay tax
  • run a community choir
  • run a local arts festival
  • look after grandchildren
  • support the local school with fundraising for basics and being a governor
  • work with others to fund raise for local amenities: we created a playground, run coffee mornings for isolated people with health advice etc on tap
  • volunteer with national schemes ... e.g. reading support for children.

The list goes on......

I hate this dismissive phrase "economically inactive". We plug the gaps in state provision. We are not sitting on our backsides doing nothing.

CaptainMyCaptain · 03/08/2025 08:15

FortheloveofCheesus · 03/08/2025 07:13

I think that actually students need to be looked at as well.
The push to extend education and make people get university degrees for jobs where they are not actually required takes a huge number of people out of the workforce during what could be some of their most economically useful years.

Agree

Also students don't seem to work any more? Most people i knew either had a term time job or worked every vacation. As a uni student worked long hours in a factory every summer, pub shifts over Christmas and Easter. Whereas now students all seem to swan off on holiday every time the term ends.

The government need to make is easier for business to hire 16 year olds too. The ones i know are all desperate for part time jobs but no one will hire them. Why is this? When i was 16 everyone worked, in shops, pubs, petrol stations, anywhere.

My grandchildren at university have both had part time jobs since 16 and work during term time and vacations. Their private school educated friends with wealthy parents don't.

CaptainMyCaptain · 03/08/2025 08:16

mylittlekomododragon · 03/08/2025 08:05

@FourIsNewSixEarly retiree here who definitely pays tax on her pension!

Me too. I get my state pension too now and my tax bill went up.

financialcareerstuff · 03/08/2025 08:16

I do think there is a bit of missing the point on this thread, which I understand due to the judgemental rhetoric used sometimes to talk about this challenge….. resulting in lots of people posting to justify their existence and show that they and others are not lazy or not of value/contributing. I don’t think that’s the key point.

the key point is on a systemic level. So yes, on carers, while each individual is doing a great thing morally and working extremely hard by caring for somebody, that is millions of people not paying taxes, not paying national insurance, and receiving a caring allowance, alongside the person they are caring for, who generally is also costing the state a lot. The idea that this is saving the government money is only based on the assumption that it’s the government’s job to meet all costs and needs of its citizens. While I think the state supporting people as best they can is something to be celebrated, I think somebody who has chosen to have a child, whose child needs extra care, feeling they are doing the government a favour economically and therefore ‘contributing’ by providing that care at a non-commercial rate, takes things a little far. This is actually just as true for any parent of any child. No government on the planet, promises to meet every need and cost of every child - so the parent is not doing an economic favour to the state by providing that child with some of the care (alongside the school and nhs and child benefit, carers benefit etc that the government does manage).

systemically, it’s pretty simple. The state only has the money paid to it by its citizens through taxes. It then pays out that money to cover some of the costs of its citizens being educated, kept healthy, kept safe etc…… if the first amount is less than the second amount, the country gets into more and more debt. Boosting the first amount can be done long term through growth, innovation etc. short term it can be done by raising taxes, but beyond a certain level this tends to stunt growth. The second amount (money going out), is influenced by a huge number of things - the health of people, how they age, the government’s efficiency, and how much the state attempts to support etc. .

Having this many adults non economically active (ie not producing growth/ wealth, and mostly not putting money in, while also taking money out) creates a big problem with the maths - regardless of moral issues or the value and character of any individual.

Where things tend to go wrong is when we try to turn this maths into a tug if war of moral judgement….. ideas of people being lazy/scroungers etc….. or equally, condemning high earners who are contributors as heartless, privileged people who wouldn’t know suffering if it slapped them in the face.

actual changes that change the maths however are necessary if we want the country to flourish…. Whether that be improving the population’s overall mental and physical health so they need less care, or boosting their education and capacity to innovate and become productive, or shifting the country’s ideology towards being more highly redistributive (ie raising taxes for rich), or by contrast, increasing or decreasing immigration, declaring the state has a more limited responsibility for people’s needs than before, grabbing a share of the global pie for major growth areas through incentives etc etc…… generally government is always trying to come up with some kind of winning cocktail.

they then try to justify these hard decisions through political rhetoric that will get people on board…. Whether it is anti immigration, anti scroungers, or anti rich folk….. and the population bounce around like ping pong balls judging each other….

I think we would do much better to simply look at the maths….

Swipe left for the next trending thread