Economically inactive people……

[Watermelonnice]

AIBU to think that the government needs to clarify who they mean when they say that they want to reduce the number of people who are economically inactive?

And to think they need to differentiate between the reasons for economic inactivity, including providing numbers who fall into each category.

It’s lazy to make this a headline without taking into account the different reasons and specifying who they mean.

Presumably they mean people who are unemployed, but economically inactive could include students, carers, disabled people, stay at home parents and those who have retired early.

Some will be reliant on the state for support but many will be completely self reliant and not claiming a thing from the government.

Why aren’t the government clearer on who they mean? Do they think they’ll persuade people who have retired early and others who have enough income without claiming any benefits to restart work?

You have to pay roughly £17k a year in tax for everyone in your household to break even with what the government spent on you. We’re a net tax contributor household (through our jobs before I’m accused of anything), it’s why it’s super annoying when you’re accused of being selfish for not wanting tax rises by someone receiving net £10k a year when you’re paying over £70k a year in to the system.

@becausetrampslikeus No. The insane thing actually is that anything the government pays for is included. Schooling, healthcare etc. That's why strikes are so damaging, not only to.infividuaks, but also to the economy and GDP.

It's bonkers when you think about the cyclical nature of people working, paying taxes, adding to GDP, for the government to spend on things generating more GDP.

I think that actually students need to be looked at as well.

The push to extend education and make people get university degrees for jobs where they are not actually required takes a huge number of people out of the workforce during what could be some of their most economically useful years.

And usually it's not just that they aren't productive, they are accruing large amounts of debt which will drag them down for years.

Some work does require a university degree. Others require some training but it's better delivered outside of a university and doesn't require the same time or infrastructure. Many many other jobs could be, and used to be, trained on the job, including some that we wouldn't think of today. And people were paid and doing work while training.

What kind of training is actually best for differernt types of work needs a serious rethink, and not one that is just trying to prop up the university sector.

They are providing a service. One measure of GDP is the total value of goods and services produced.

Another reason for our low productivity. We are a service based economy with many jobs hard to automate & paying crappy wages.

The truth is we all need to pay more tax from the poorest to the richest but no government would dare suggest it. That tax also needs to be spent wisely and not given to private companies.

American often talk about the glory days of the 50s and don't realise that was only down to higher taxes spent wisely.

Since the 80s people have been tricked into thinking 50p extra in their pay from reduced tax is worth more than well run services and infrastructure through wise tax spending.

I understand your frustration at being singled out and vilified the same way those on welfare are because being very well off or very poor makes you easy targets for the left/right leaning media.

You are wrong.

Some people simply can not work. And disability isn’t idleness.

Yeah people on benefits get told they are a drain and cant be economically active because their money comes from taxpayers. So does the salary of public sector employees too.
So it boils down to people earning their money. Which is divisive.

So it boils down to people earning their money. Which is divisive.

How on earth is that divisive?

it seems to many people and not enough people to sell goods and services too, then we outsource to cheaper countries, then companies want to make redundancies what excatly or how is the economy ment to get better ?

There's a good reason Sunak gave people in receipt of benefits an extra £20 per month and hardship lump sums in the pandemic when most middle class folks were holed up in their homes not spending.

He knew they would have to spend that money out of either nesseceity or simply because it was there putting it straight back into the economy at a time it desperately needed it.

You're right.

@HostaCentral , @fizzypop100 , @ItIsFoggy , @SkeletonBatsflyatnight

Others in similar situations have my full support, even if it's just for a brief moment of shared approval, naturally.

Both people on benefits and public sector employees get money form the government.
People demonise those on benefits because they are seen to be getting "free" money.
It seems like you are only allowed money if you earn it.
In terms of spending in the economy it does not matter where that money came from. It al trickles up and down and helps us all.

And you know this for a fact do you.
That’s not the case at all, people claim UC when working part time and they actually do pay their council tax.

Because the economy is based on providing goods and services, money is just the medium. If you’re receiving money but not providing goods or services then you’re not contributing to the economy.

then that is a really sad way to look at people. We are so much more then economical units.

It’s just so simple. There are so many people who could work a 20 hour week who for whatever reason can’t work a 40 hour week (plus 1.5 hours a day commute). Tackle that. Anyone who lives within a 3 mile radius who meets essential criteria for a public sector job is guaranteed an interview.

Workplaces with over 200 staff most have at least 10% of jobs offered as part time.

Simple Keysian economics. The government creates simple jobs (support workers, bank school staff, farm works/fruit pickers, more PCSOs, supplying work to 15-18 year olds) and pays them fairly avoiding the drain of agencies).

They are just regurgitating the same old. So disappointing.

Were we not discussing the economy?

yes and i contribute by my spending. I spend in small businesses and that helps to keep them going.
we could go round in circles on this

We can’t really go round in circles, if you’re not contributing to the producing of goods or services in exchange for money then you’re not contributing to the economy. It’s not based on feelings.

I use small businesses. How is that not contributing to the economy?

I’ve retired early - professional role. Mortgage paid off, no need for me to work at all. I’m not the only one who has taken early retirement not on health grounds, but because we’ve amassed enough pension, have high earning spouses and do not need to work.

I wish it was that simple. The government wouldn't dare spend the massive amount of money it would cost to create those jobs.

That's before we address moving people on mass to where those jobs are and provide housing. Which would never get support when people object to essential infrastructure being built because it ruins their "views".

Because you’re not providing goods or services. You’re taking money without providing good or services and giving it to others in exchange for goods and services. You are participating in the economy, but only in terms of consuming not contributing. It’s just economic terms, nothing to do with you personally.

No they can't. Not everyone. I had a stroke in January. I can't currently work (not claiming benefits, living off savings) I can barely get through the fucking day some days. Today for example I have barely been able to cross the hallway to get to the toilet, I have spent the day feeling like I am going throw up, intense nerve pain from toes to top of my head & I now can't sleep but I'm thoroughly exhausted.

what the actual fuck do you think I could do??

and I am FAR from the 'worst off' of people with ill health or disabilities.

The should just say they want income tax receipts. That’s all it’s about.