Bite? Rabies? Any docs?

[Feelingworriied]

So I feel a bit worried but not sure if I'm overthinking this

Yesterday we went to a national trust place - wallington hall in Northumberland. They have a den building area which has lots of trees, lots of logs and branches for the kids to build with. I had a short sleeved top on. I was carrying multiple branches and bits over to the kids and had them tucked under my arm. Obviously these felt rough but nothing notably painful.

This morning I noticed dried blood on my arm, thought it was a scratch. Wiped it away and could see two puncture marks about 5mm apart. I wiped again and the blood cleaned fully and disappeared. No wound/marks visible after it was cleaned.

At first I thought it was a spider bite but there's no swelling or redness. Then I remembered reading about that lady who died from rabies in the news - at the time I read around rabies because I didnt know much and remember seeing what a bat bite looks like. Basically same as a spider bite. So because of the lack of irriation if it was a spider bit I googled if there are bats at wallington - and this is where the fear started- it's known for bats, it has a large population 😳

Does it sound insane that I'm worried about a bat bite. I didnt see any bats but concerned if one was injured on one of the branches I collected it could have bitten me?

This^

We found two clinging to our front door years ago in broad daylight. Had to call the local “Batman” to collect them. He told us not to touch them. Unseasonal weather had disrupted their usual pattern.

@Feelingworriied rarely only night fishermen will get a pipistrelle bats will catch a bat on their hooks. I have only known one person to be bitten and died in hospital. unlikely to happen during the day.

@Feelingworriied rabies vaccine is a very painful vaccine to get for anyone, child or adult.

The rabies vaccine now isn't any more painful than other vaccines.

The immunoglobulin is quite painful because it's thick and they have to infiltrate it in multiple spots around where the bite was. Even the nurse who gave it was wincing and asked if I needed some time.

I recall a previous bat thread but based in USA, and it went a similar way. UK posters don’t understand how serious rabies is, and that if you have symptoms you’re dead, and the only way to test for it is to decapitate the deceased animal. There’s no live test.

@ILostMySharkPants

I remember that thread. I was amazed at how little people seemed to know. I'm in my 40's and I remember terrifying posters in pet shops about the dangers of rabies and warning against smuggling animals into the country.

So do I.

Referring to another (spurious?) thread, another reason to be thankful to have been born in the UK.

Bats aside (I don’t think it was a bat). How can you clean/wipe a puncture mark away?

OP, I don't know why you're dithering! You don't need to go to A&E, you only need to phone the number on the link I posted up thread. If you live in England (I'm guessing because you visited Northumberland) then:

UKHSA’s Rabies and Immunoglobulin Service on 0330 128 1020

Just flipping ask them!

If it was a bat then you'd have seen a bat.

It was not a bat.

If it was a spider, there would not have been blood and you would not clearly see puncture marks more than a mm apart, spiders fangs are very close together and positioned under the spider, to bite you, they have to pinch inward together, meaning the puncture marks would be very shallow and very tightly placed together.

Most of our spiders are physically unable to bite you unless you squash your flesh against them. Spider bites are pretty rare vs biting insects like mosquitos/horse flies etc.

The reality is most likely you got a couple of punctures from something sharp in the vegetation - the fact it doesn't have a red mark or swelling suggests its not a bite and isn't infected.

Keep it clean, seek medical treatment if anything alters to suggest there is infection.

This service is for medical professionals not the public.

We had an area run by the national trust there were some sheep on it rented out in parts. Further down was an estate with a playground for the children of the estate. A new farmer rented the land who was somewhat slap dash re fencing and care of the flock. The sheep were escaping, getting into the play park and gardens.

That summer and the next GPs were puzzled why locals had so many ticks, children especially were getting bitten. The play park and gardens were infested. The upshot was the farmer was told to care for his sheep better and fix the fencing. Thankfully then the problem was solved. A few people went on to develop Lyme disease unfortunately.

Are you going to go and get a rabies jab right now? A bat could've bitten your back while you weren't looking...

I slept in a room with bats in the rafters. Everyone made fun of me for being worried about rabies… thankfully nothing. But i won’t sleep there again.

OP you could get the vaccine privately just to put your mind at rest if nothing else.

I hate that anything about bats these days are about how cute they are. No warning that they in fact could be deadly.

That's because there have been exactly zero deaths associated with bats in the UK having rabies in decades. And, even then, it was one death and wasn't actually even rabies - it was a "rabies-like virus"... and OP didn't even see a bat or have any reason to think she was bitten by one.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rabies-post-exposure-prophylaxis-management-guidelines/rabies-summary-of-risk-assessment-and-treatment
Assessing risk here you would be potentially be offered a vaccine
It's low risk in UK for bat and cat 2 risk for possible salivary contact with bat.
Tomorrow you should speak to 111 or ooh gp to ask for advice. It's not urgent but I think going through the process to discuss with the health protection team is sensible. Let a professional make the decision.

Ah so a rabies like virus death is much better than a classic rabies death then?

Lyssavirus is the type of virus that includes what people call “rabies”. Imagine if people on here started arguing whether someone died of Covid or Omicron? Would you argue that omicrom isn’t an issue because someone died of Covid?

Again. It is incredibly unlikely the OP was bitten by a bat. It’s even more unlikely that bat had rabies. But. IF that bat DID have rabies/lyssavirus then without a vaccine she would be dead. Whether you officially have Classic rabies or Lyssavirus it WILL be fatal without treatment before symptoms. They will both have the same result.

All I (and others) are saying on here is that NO ONE should be advising someone to ignore a potentially life ending issue. Just that she should get medical advice. No one on here can guarantee she wasn’t bitten by a bat. It’s extremely unlikely she was. But it’s better someone with experience can advise her properly rather than internet randoms.

I've decided to just book privately. It might sound crazy but the peace of mind is worth it for me. Also, I was reading last night and came across this data on the gov website. For everyone who said we don't have rabies in our country these are the locations where rabid bats have been found this year. It doesn't say how many in each area but it's atleast 1. Northumberland was last in the list a few years ago so that's reassuring but it does rely on people sending in dead bats so perhaps more people in the south send them for testing. I didnt know it was a thing!

By the time you get to see a consultant if it was a rabid bite it could well be too late. You should have gone straight to A&E.

my DC had wounds like that for a tick bite, which is x1000 more likely - especially in a wooded area.

Sorry I might be a bit late with this, certain you would have been reassured that you were not bitten by a bat & do not have rabies.

I'm a volunteer with a bat charity and can assure that bats are actually very clean, pose virtually no danger to humans & most definitely don't randomly bite people.

There is a rabies like virus that rarely some species of bat can be infected with. It is not the same as the rabies that affects dogs. There has only ever been one case of a bat infecting a human.

Bats do not randomly bite or scratch people & avoid contact with humans. The only time someone would be at risk of a bite or scratch is if they were deliberately handling a bat which is illegal anyway (Wildlife & countryside act 1981) unless as part of a conservation project.

OP you will definitely not have been bitten or scratched by a bat at a national trust property. That is to pardon the expression BAT SHIT .

Hopefully anyone reading this thread will take the time to understand these much misunderstood, wonderful creatures.

https://www.bats.org.uk/advice/what-do-i-need-to-know-about-having-bats/bats-and-human-health