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Maths test - to think Civil Service have it wrong?

1000 replies

Sharingaroomtinightthen · 01/08/2025 21:58

I’ve just applied for a Civil Service test. Part of it is passing a numerical test.

This is the question.

The answer is 125%. I’m sure of it.

If you start with £100, and in the first year it doubles it’s £200. So at the of year one it’s £200.

In year two it trebles to £600.

It then falls by a quarter in the third year to £450.

So end of year 1 - £200.

End of year 3 - £450.

It’s increased by 125%.

125% isn’t an answer option.

WIBU to email and tell them they’ve got it wrong?

Maths test - to think Civil Service have it wrong?
OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
slashlover · 02/08/2025 01:48

Horsie · 02/08/2025 01:42

It IS. 100 x 100 percent is 100. Just like 1 x 1 = 1. Not 2.

If you have a 100g tin of beans and you get a tin with "100% extra free" on it I.e. a 100% increase. What will be the size of the tin of beans?

Sharingaroomtinightthen · 02/08/2025 01:49

EricTheGardener · 02/08/2025 01:44

I really need to sleep but this thread is just incredible.

-- signed, a somewhat embarrassed civil servant.

😆 I feel a bit panicked that if I go to bed it’ll be full tomorrow and I won’t be able to argue my case any more.

OP posts:
Horsie · 02/08/2025 01:49

Sharingaroomtinightthen · 02/08/2025 01:46

Right. You have two grapes. Someone gives you 100% more. You now have four grapes. You don’t still have two.

Correct. But 1 x 1 isn't 2 in maths, as insane as that is. It's 1.

frecklemcspeckles · 02/08/2025 01:50

Christ the night @Sharingaroomtinightthen you have the absolute patience of a saint dealing with the maths pretenders on this thread. I applaud you like I've never applauded an OP before for tenacity and righteousness. I've just come in from Feile in Belfast Over 30s club.... A 6 hour marathon of the best tunes in my life and I think you need more kudos for continuing answering this rubbish than I do for being 40 and managing to rave my heart out for 6 hours straight. Well done!! 😂😂😂😘😘😘😘

slashlover · 02/08/2025 01:51

Horsie · 02/08/2025 01:42

It IS. 100 x 100 percent is 100. Just like 1 x 1 = 1. Not 2.

You're not multiplying, you're adding.

EricTheGardener · 02/08/2025 01:51

Horsie · 02/08/2025 01:49

Correct. But 1 x 1 isn't 2 in maths, as insane as that is. It's 1.

But why are you multiplying 1 x 1 in the first place? That's not what they're asking for. What if you increased 1 by 100%? What would the answer be then?

Horsie · 02/08/2025 01:52

slashlover · 02/08/2025 01:48

If you have a 100g tin of beans and you get a tin with "100% extra free" on it I.e. a 100% increase. What will be the size of the tin of beans?

Mathematically, a 100 percent increase would leave you with 100g. That's because the number 1 has special properties in maths which is why 1 x 1 =1 and not 2. Try 1 x 1 on any calculator. It'll give you 1, not 2. I know. I don't get it either.

summertimeinLondon · 02/08/2025 01:53

Horsie · 02/08/2025 01:46

I am right. A portion of a given value - note, a portion, not an increase - must be less than 100 percent.

If you have 100 grapes, and you want to give a percentage of just those 100 grapes to your friend, you have to give less than 100 of them, right?

If you want to give 125% of the grapes to your friend, you can do that, but not without adding more grapes.

If you want to give 125% of the grapes to your friend, you can do that, but not without adding more grapes.

You are so close! Yes, in maths you can do this. You can give 125 percent of the grapes to your friend. And the extra 25 grapes are the percentage increase of grapes that you must find to make up that 125%. Your percentage increase is exactly the extra 25% percent of grapes you must go and get so that you can give your friend 125 grapes.

Now do you get the difference between percentage (the total number of grapes you want to give) and percentage increase (the extra grapes you need to add)?

You give your friend 125 percent of the grapes. The percentage increase is 25%.

Sharingaroomtinightthen · 02/08/2025 01:53

Horsie · 02/08/2025 01:46

I am right. A portion of a given value - note, a portion, not an increase - must be less than 100 percent.

If you have 100 grapes, and you want to give a percentage of just those 100 grapes to your friend, you have to give less than 100 of them, right?

If you want to give 125% of the grapes to your friend, you can do that, but not without adding more grapes.

Alright, so you go to the shop and buy some more grapes for your pal.

If you’ve got 100 and want to give 125% to her then you hand over 100 plus 25 you’ve bought at the Coop.

She has 125 to start with. Adding another 125 is a 100% increase.

OP posts:
Horsie · 02/08/2025 01:54

EricTheGardener · 02/08/2025 01:51

But why are you multiplying 1 x 1 in the first place? That's not what they're asking for. What if you increased 1 by 100%? What would the answer be then?

Because this misunderstanding of 1 is why people are getting 125% instead of 225%.

niadainud · 02/08/2025 01:54

Horsie · 02/08/2025 01:41

You have a single grape. It’s increased by 100%. You don’t still have one grape. You have two.

This, here, is exactly where everyone is going wrong - by forgetting the special properties of the number 1.

2 x 2 is 4.

However, 1 x 1 isn't 2.

It's 1.

Get out any calculator. 1 x 1 =1.

It isn't 1 times 1 though, it's 1 plus 1.

100% (i.e. one whole object) increased by (i.e. added to) 100% (i.e. another whole object) equals 200% (i.e. two whole objects).

Get out any calculator and you will find that 1 + 1 = 2.

Rainydayinlondon · 02/08/2025 01:55

If I earn £1 per hour and my boss says that he's going to increase my hourly salary by 100%,what do I get? £2

If I earn £200 and he says he's going to increase it by 100% what do I get? £400

If I earn £200 and he says he's going to increase it by 125% what do I get? £450

InWalksBarberalla · 02/08/2025 01:55

Horsie · 02/08/2025 01:52

Mathematically, a 100 percent increase would leave you with 100g. That's because the number 1 has special properties in maths which is why 1 x 1 =1 and not 2. Try 1 x 1 on any calculator. It'll give you 1, not 2. I know. I don't get it either.

Oh come of it you must be trolling now.
Yes 1x1 is 1 but 1+1 is 2. There are no special properties of the number 1.

summertimeinLondon · 02/08/2025 01:56

Horsie · 02/08/2025 01:52

Mathematically, a 100 percent increase would leave you with 100g. That's because the number 1 has special properties in maths which is why 1 x 1 =1 and not 2. Try 1 x 1 on any calculator. It'll give you 1, not 2. I know. I don't get it either.

You don’t get it because it’s not correct. You’re adding the original value for a 100% increase, not multiplying!

99bottlesofkombucha · 02/08/2025 01:56

murasaki · 01/08/2025 22:17

As i see it, the end of year one is 100%. Doesn't matter that it doubled in the previous year. You then treble it and take a quarter off that leaving 225%.

It absolutely isn’t.

Sharingaroomtinightthen · 02/08/2025 01:56

Horsie · 02/08/2025 01:49

Correct. But 1 x 1 isn't 2 in maths, as insane as that is. It's 1.

Well, something we can agree on I suppose.

OP posts:
fruitywineglass · 02/08/2025 01:58

Horsie · 02/08/2025 01:52

Mathematically, a 100 percent increase would leave you with 100g. That's because the number 1 has special properties in maths which is why 1 x 1 =1 and not 2. Try 1 x 1 on any calculator. It'll give you 1, not 2. I know. I don't get it either.

Well do it realistically not mathmatically.

One tin of beans is 100g.

The special offer gives you 100% extra for free.

That is, two 100g cans for the price of one.

Or one 200g can, which is what the PP is asking you.

Either way, 100% more of 100g is 200g.

slashlover · 02/08/2025 01:58

Horsie · 02/08/2025 01:52

Mathematically, a 100 percent increase would leave you with 100g. That's because the number 1 has special properties in maths which is why 1 x 1 =1 and not 2. Try 1 x 1 on any calculator. It'll give you 1, not 2. I know. I don't get it either.

You keep repeating this but you're not multiplying 1x1 and I don't know why you think you are.

If someone has 100g of beans and they give you another 100g free then you are ADDING. You then have two lots of 100g.

If the beans have 50 % extra free then do you think you get LESS beans or do you think that a 100% increase is less than a 50% increase?

Horsie · 02/08/2025 01:59

But YOU had 100 to start with. That's the important number here. If you have 100 grapes and you want to give your pal 125% of those grapes, you buy an extra 25. Not an extra 125. I know it seems totally illogical, but the reason is because anything that is multiples of 1 does not increase. Because in maths, 1 x 1 is 1, not 2. It has "special properties." I know, it makes no sense. I don't make the rules! But if you do 1 x 1 on any calculator, it's 1, not 2.

That's why 125% of 100 grapes is an extra 25 grapes, not an extra 125.

Sharingaroomtinightthen · 02/08/2025 01:59

Horsie · 02/08/2025 01:52

Mathematically, a 100 percent increase would leave you with 100g. That's because the number 1 has special properties in maths which is why 1 x 1 =1 and not 2. Try 1 x 1 on any calculator. It'll give you 1, not 2. I know. I don't get it either.

Try 1+100%.

OP posts:
Sharingaroomtinightthen · 02/08/2025 02:01

niadainud · 02/08/2025 01:54

It isn't 1 times 1 though, it's 1 plus 1.

100% (i.e. one whole object) increased by (i.e. added to) 100% (i.e. another whole object) equals 200% (i.e. two whole objects).

Get out any calculator and you will find that 1 + 1 = 2.

How has it come to explaining 1+1=2??

OP posts:
InWalksBarberalla · 02/08/2025 02:01

Horsie · 02/08/2025 01:59

But YOU had 100 to start with. That's the important number here. If you have 100 grapes and you want to give your pal 125% of those grapes, you buy an extra 25. Not an extra 125. I know it seems totally illogical, but the reason is because anything that is multiples of 1 does not increase. Because in maths, 1 x 1 is 1, not 2. It has "special properties." I know, it makes no sense. I don't make the rules! But if you do 1 x 1 on any calculator, it's 1, not 2.

That's why 125% of 100 grapes is an extra 25 grapes, not an extra 125.

Can you try entering 1+1 on your calculator and coming back with your answer?

niadainud · 02/08/2025 02:01

Horsie · 02/08/2025 01:52

Mathematically, a 100 percent increase would leave you with 100g. That's because the number 1 has special properties in maths which is why 1 x 1 =1 and not 2. Try 1 x 1 on any calculator. It'll give you 1, not 2. I know. I don't get it either.

I don't get it either.

Well that much is certainly clear.

Team125 · 02/08/2025 02:02

summertimeinLondon · 01/08/2025 23:24

@Sharingaroomtinightthen Re whether to tell them….I personally would have to. It would niggle away at me otherwise!

HOWEVER — I have many times been told that the civil service, even for (especially for) the nicher fast stream roles, doesn’t like people to be too clever. 2:1s are preferred to Firsts; team workers to geniuses, leaders, mavericks or those whose thinking style is a little too intellectual or individualist. (Even when I have several times been a referee for civil service developed vetting, the vetters are very keen to check that the candidate is not too intellectual/too much of an individualist, and the successful ones are generally even now still the good eggs who are bright but not too bright, follow the rules and take instruction from management, rather than people who go out of their way to make a stand on being right or point out where their managers are wrong….)

On this basis, maybe you shouldn’t stick your neck out to point out that the test is wrong 😆 That is, if you want the job…?

The poster above complaining about the public sector was being egregious, but in all seriousness there might be something in that. If the test being wrong annoys you (and it would annoy me — and I’m not a good fit for the CS because I always have to point out where I’m right and someone in authority is wrong 😆) — might you genuinely be better off doing something in private sector consultancy or third sector or similar, where you can follow your more individual instincts, rather than the civil service, where you’re very much trained to suppress them?

Edited

Aaabbbsssolluutte nonsense re fast stream. Not only have I done the scheme, I’ve also been an assessor for it. The degree is nothing more than an entitlement to apply. Your tests and interviews are each assessed by different people, who have no access to any of your details, schooling, qualifications or any other information about you beyond your name. Nor do they have the time or inclination to do anything more than mark the one interview/assessment they have been allocated you for. Trust me.

You pass or fail each element and overall you either get through or you don’t.

Also, VERY few people go through DV. Fast stream is majority SC.

EricTheGardener · 02/08/2025 02:02

Horsie · 02/08/2025 01:54

Because this misunderstanding of 1 is why people are getting 125% instead of 225%.

Omg 😖

The new value is 225% of the original value.
The increase is 125%.

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