Driving over 70

[Veryveryconcerned]

It took me time to decide but after getting other people’s opinions I reported an over 70 driver to the DVLA due to poor eyesight. Prior to the person’s 70th birthday they had said they were getting rid of their 3.5 tonne van as they said they would not pass the test to be able to continue driving it. The person is virtually blind in one eye and the eyesight is not good in the other. They do not get their eyes tested because they do not want to have to stop driving. My concern is the other people on the roads.
Does anyone know how long it takes and what exactly the DVLA do when they receive a report. I have reported it anonymously but it was about 8 weeks ago which is very concerning.
Am I worrying unnecessarily?

As you ban each highest risk age group, eventually there will be nobody left to ban.

Everyone who drives should have a regular eye sight test. If you mean a driving test, that would be impossible currently it's even difficult for learners to get a test. If it was to be introduced it should be for everyone too (maybe every 5 or 10 years) you don't suddenly forget how to drive or the rules of the road at 70 and many people are fighting fit at 70 while some have serious health problems much younger. A lot of younger people seem to forget everything they learned about driving as soon as they pass their test, and young male drivers are the most dangerous on the road.

But the 40 year old may use drugs and alcohol so no even safe on a push bike

I’m not sure why everyone thinks eyesight is the intrinsic factor in good driving, we should
consider having IQ testing too.
Seeing as we aren’t letting the elderly/disabled/under 25’s drive, let’s also have an IQ of, say, 110 necessary.

And how do you expect people in rural areas to get a job and live?
I’m all for restrictions to younger drivers but that is totally unworkable

Eyesight tends to deteriorate as we age and so there is a positive correlation between advancing age and worsening eyesight.

"Eyesight tends to deteriorate as we age and so there is a positive correlation between advancing age and worsening eyesight."

Also the major issues in eyesight tend to crop up at 70 plus. Cataracts for example.

I agree, plenty of 25yr olds have full time jobs and restricting their driving will restrict their opportunities.

What is like to see if a more stringent driving tuition and test process. There should be a competency-based portion of learning to drive with skills/scenarios that need to be ticked off by a qualified instructor before you can take your test, e.g., driving at night, driving in rush hour, driving in multiple environments (city, town, suburbs, etc), it doesn't need to be 100% prescriptive but should incorporate a range of driving experiences as part of tuition. Intensive courses should not be allowed for new drivers as they don't gain enough experience of the roads during a week long course, they should only be for people resitting their rest or looking to improve their skills. I'd also like to see more investment in measures such as cameras at lights, more traffic cops, and harsher penalties for dangerous drivers.

I do think their should be some sort of license renewal scheme whereby every so often (five years? Ten?) every driver must have an eye test and must have their GP countersign a form confirming they have no health conditions that impact their driving. As drivers get older, the interval between renewals will decrease. A nominal fee for this (e.g., £20) would help pay for the scheme with exemptions for people on PIP and employers liable for paying it for people who drive as part of their job. There should also be a centralised notifiable condition system where healthcare professionals have to record details of anyone diagnosed with a condition/level of sight deterioration that affects their driving so that DVLA can act on the information accordingly.

All of the arguments for more stringent testing seem very strong to me. Even so I think they will be but a drop in the ocean compared to the might of the motor vehicle industry which will lobby hard against anything which restricts its profits.

Or those who think driving a car is almost a human right. It's not just testing that needs to change, it is banning those whose conduct on the road is unacceptable.

Simple. I don't drive. But that's not the point.

Not going to answer to your level of knowledge of Alzheimer's?

I wanted to know why you despaired at someone else's post. What's wrong with describing a 96-yr old as spritely? I hope I will be and not flat on my back in a care home.

You can do that too - the IAM does drives with elderly people to check their driving ability (they do it for youngsters too). As well as the advanced driving test training and other things.

So find your local branch of IAM and do a test drive with them.

Yes you can. The police aren't going to investigate and even if they do, they'll soon move onto a different matter once they know the person concerned has dementia or has poor eyesight, or both.

My mum is in her 80s and still drives but I go in a car with her every 6 weeks or so so I know she's ok.

I actually think the impact of prescription drugs is underestimated too. There are sometimes warnings but not always.

It's not really about IQ though is it, it's about personality. If you have some degree of self-preservation and/or patience you will drive pretty carefully and not take undue risks.

But if you don't, you will happily drive at 60 on a country lane or 100 on a motorway and go through red lights etc.

A lot of it is intelligence but we can add psychometric testing as well.
The fewer people on the road, the better.

I'll contribute my thoughts based on my knowledge of my DF's Alzheimer's.

It's a disease which impairs memory, thinking and personality. And in my experience is usually well advanced before a diagnosis is obtained, meaning that driving skills and abilities may have been adversely affected before a diagnosis. Alzheimer's diagnoses are often preceded by Moderate Cognitive Impairment, so those people are not at the top of the game, and the nature of the problem means that they might not be aware of their increasing deficits.

My DF was 80 when the signs of dementia first became obvious, but it wasn't till about 5 years later that he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's. I see from the Govt website that this means he was required to advise the DVLA and his insurers of this diagnosis - and here we (speaking generally) hit the first problem. My DF, like many others with dementia, forget that they have a diagnosis, and/or are in total denial of their symptoms and how they are affected/declining. Someone would a diagnosis of Alzheimer's would either not fill the form in at all, because they don't remember their diagnosis, or fill it in inaccurately, not out of a intention to deceived but because their illness means that they are no longer a reliable witness to their own life!

I would add to this that it's common for spouses of those with dementia/Alzheimer's also to take refuge in denial. My DF had already stopped driving before he was diagnosed. I'd like to think my DM took on the driving after I had refused to let him drive with my DS in the car, and I also refused to be driven by him. His judgement was impaired, and although he didn't have any accidents, that was largely down to luck and probably also the alertness of other drivers around him. My DM is one of those spouses who took refuge in denial of my DF's very obvious decline, so I suspect something really scary must have happened when he was behind the wheel for her to take on the driving.

It's my opinion that as soon as someone is diagnosed with Alzheimer's or any form of dementia, they should surrender their licence. Their decline can be rapid and unpredictable.

I'd also say that anyone who is deliberately driving more slowly because they're aware that their ability to react quickly is impaired, should also stop driving.

And passengers who don't drive, aren't always aware of the difficulties and problems inherent in driving.

A lot of what you say is correct, MCI is actually Mild Cognitive Impairment though. However, there are various diagnoses withing the ‘Dementia’ spectrum as I assume you are aware. Due to taking part in a specialist medical study OH was diagnosed with MCI/Mild Alzheimer’s at a very early stage in 2019 and has been monitored by specialist medics, tested, scanned (MRI and PET among others), etc. since then. I am in contact with other partners, spouses, carers of other sufferers and can see how the disease differs for them DVLA and his insurance company are aware of his diagnosis and monitoring.

I can assure you I am not in denial about his diagnosis or his capabilities; I work with the medics to monitor his capabilities.

Alzheimer’s is a weird thing. There are so many aspects to deterioration of the brain. Short, medium and long term memory, different types of ‘memory’ and inconsistencies within them. Some memories a sufferer will forget one day they will remember the next day but it is recognised that many automatic actions/memories, such as toileting, showering, dressing, feeding pets, all sorts of things, including driving come under ‘muscle memory’. OH needs a sat nav, or me map reading, to tell him where to go but his cognitive ability to drive at appropriate speeds, spatial awareness, perceive dangers, etc. are fine so far. I will be the first person to know when that changes. Apart from the general public and himself, I am the person most at danger if he becomes impaired. I always accompany him when he drives.

As far as driving is concerned he’s as sharp as a tack; I wish that extended to other areas.

I would say anyone who doesn’t recognise that age affects their reaction times and doesn’t take that into consideration should not be driving.

I’m not sure why you think someone who is not driving isn’t aware of the difficulties and problems of driving. Why would they not be ?

In my own experience the DVLA is extremely slow when it comes to things like this. I wouldn't expect to hear anything for a long while.

Also, not everyone who is partially sighted will be banned from driving, as long as they have fully adapted to their sight loss and can pass assesments set by the DVLA to prove they aren't a danger.

Fully agree my wife had vascular dimentia and gave up driving as soon as diagnosed

Oh, yes, I forgot to mention, there's nothing wrong with my OH's sight

You didn't pose it as a question.

My grandmother died from advanced Alzheimer's having lived with it for over a decade, and now my mother, for whom I am the main carer, has it in its early stages. I doubt it's helpful to this thread but there you go.

You've admitted he has cognitive impairment and needs you - a person who doesn't drive themselves - with him at all times. Have you followed the rules posted upthread and informed the DVLA of his diagnosis?

You say his cognitive ability to drive at appropriate speeds, spatial awareness, perceive dangers, etc. are fine so far. I will be the first person to know when that changes. You know this is a degenerative disease yet you're waiting for actual evidence that he can't drive, by letting him continue to drive until something happens to prove that he can't? You can accept this level of risk for yourself and for him but it's not fair (or legal) to inflict it on others.