To think men shouldn’t be allowed to express pro-life opinions?

[purpledaze24]

Was just watching (by accident, went down a bit of a rabbit hole!) a YouTube video of this infuriating American far-right man talking about how abortion shouldn’t be allowed (even in the case of rape). Watching it made me angrier and angrier. It’s bad enough hearing anyone bang on about banning abortion, but of course, everyone is entitled to an opinion. However, when it’s a man who has no clue what a woman’s body goes through, and has no regard for the giant responsibility and completely life-changing effect a baby has on a mother’s life (cos let’s be realistic, many fathers find it pretty easy to walk away or continue living life completely responsibly-free), I feel like, how dare he express these opinions, he shouldn’t have a say, it’s just not his place. AIBU or should men be allowed to express anti-abortion opinions? I’m not talking about men whose partner gets pregnant, I’m talking about politicians and men with power talking about banning abortion in general. Watching them talk about it gives me the ick

Freedom of speech- good.
Loss of freedom of speech - bad.

Can't believe this needs to be explained.

OP, have you ever read 1984?

It’s a difficult one. On the one hand, I hear you op, it can sound and feel outrageously presumptuous when men talk about women’s bodies in a proprietorial way or just talk about them full stop.

On the other hand, don’t we want men taking responsibility for their actions and being involved in women’s issues? And understanding the biological strengths and inequalities that women can face? Men hold so much power in our paternalistic world, that we need them on board to effect change.

I think both sexes should be involved in law making on this issue but men need to learn sensitivity as to when and how they express their opinions. Women have been silenced so often on so many issues over the years; men have to learn when not to speak.

So, a woman is allowed a strong opinion on whether complete strangers can circumcise their 5day old male baby and yet, 6 days prior, a man (potentially a partner) can have no say in whether a woman kills (and I think this is the correct word one day before birth) their baby (foetus)?

No inconsistency there?

And yes, if you want to argue that the law does not consider a foetus a person until the day of birth, the law also does not consider circumcision assault or genital mutilation.

YABU

Anyone should be allowed to express any opinions they have. I would hate to live in a society where that is not the case.

But I don't believe that men should have any say in whether abortion is legal.

After a baby is born, both parents have parental responsibility and therefore each get to express their wishes on what they want for the child. This includes having a say over medical decisions.

Before a baby is born, the pregnancy is taking place in the woman's body and she therefore has autonomy over what happens to it.

What happens post-birth cannot be used as justification to override the right to bodily autonomy prior to birth.

I think there's a difference between expressing pro life opinions and trying to get abortion banned / made illegal.
Anyone who tries to do the latter ( be that men or other women) are wrong.

I agree they are wrong, but surely anybody can call for a law to be changed?

I don't want to reply to anyone directly here to cause offence or anything, and the thread is going off on some bizarre tangents.

I've never had any concerns around being pro-choice. If something is banned or made illegal, it will still be done regardless of the law; it will just be done in an unsafe manner.

Why have a law that limits your options when one law allows you to have two choices?

If you're pro-life, you still have your option; if you're pro-choice, you still have your option; no one is limited.

The 2nd part to this is, I suppose, men not having a say in an unexpected pregnancy; (I know how awful that sounds), you can do everything right, and it can still slip through the net, so to speak.

This then becomes more of a moral dilemma. Where you are not on the same page, and this could be either way around. I've known women who have had an abortion, and their partners have been crushed about it, but they have supported them, and I've seen the flip side to this.

As soon as men deposit their sperm into a woman it no longer belongs to them so piss off with that shit.

"So, a woman is allowed a strong opinion on whether complete strangers can circumcise their 5day old male baby and yet, 6 days prior, a man (potentially a partner) can have no say in whether a woman kills (and I think this is the correct word one day before birth) their baby (foetus)?"

Are you remotely aware of how completely stupid this comment is?

I agree!
However certain types of men will see the woman's body as a form of territory which they, in leaving the aforementioned deposit, have now claimed as their own.

If the mother was taking drugs to an extent that would harm the born child, would the father not have a moral obligation to intervene?

You should he piss off?

💯👏👏👏

Ffs. Maybe he has a moral responsibility not to deposit his sperm in a drug addict?!

100% this. There is nothing in the Bible about abortion btw, even though it was practised in ancient times. You would think that if they cared about the 6th commandment, US right wing religious types would also condemn the execution of criminals and the horrific levels of violent crime incl gun crime. But no they are generally fine with these; which tells us that it is not about the sanctity of life at all for them....they are happy and relaxed about people being killed, they just want to control women.

There may well be a moral choice to make about abortion in some cases (not all - eg not where the woman's life or health is at risk). But if there is such a choice then it is 'owned' by the woman herself; it is not for any other person to impose it over her head. I have been through pregnancy & birth myself, & knowing what it entails I know that I would not have the right to impose it on any other woman. I am astounded at the arrogance of those who try to assume that right.

Easily solved by not having sex with drug addicts. And even if this unlikely scenario did happen, he'd still have no say over what drugs the woman was doing during pregnancy because it's her body.

So you're saying men should have their freedom to choose taken away? The woman agreed to let the guy be intimate with her, and now she cries victim and wants to terminate what they created together without the man's consent? It's absurd.

Women can address the issue by being selective about their partners and avoiding casual encounters.

This might not be a popular opinion, but honestly, there are countless women who should be more careful about whom they choose to have children with. I understand that sometimes things happen despite good intentions, and I don't know the OP's exact situation, but having two kids by two different absent fathers doesn't reflect well. We all know women who've willingly had children with unreliable men who never intended to take responsibility for them. Please, be more cautious about who you allow into your life, for everyone's sake.

Be more careful about who you allow to stick their dick into you, for Pingu's sake.

Totally this! But if the man doesnt want the baby then he should not have to pay child support. Not his uterus, not his business.....

It's not the man's choice it hers and it's not something that was ever his, to be taken away. Her life is at risk, she has to suffer the effects of pregnancy on her body, men can far too easily walk away from a child, so yes, it shouldn't be his choice at all.
If she was raped, should she need to request permission from her rapist?
You're judging women for having children with irresponsible men, but then saying she should be able to terminate a pregnancy resulting from one of those irresponsible men unless he agrees?
Your opinions are absurd
If men could carry the pregnancy, then I'm sure women would happily give them the option to choose
Unless you've never had sex without the intention of getting pregnant, then you're a hypocrite. Contraception can fail

Men can say what they want on this issue but no one should listen to them or give their views any bandwidth

Nope.

Pregnancy requires use of the woman's body therefore she has the sole right to choose whether she allows that pregnancy to continue or not.

If she does continue the pregnancy and a child is born, that's an entirely separate issue and both parents have a responsibility to support that child. That includes the father, whether he wanted the baby or not.

Perhaps men should be careful about where they're sticking their dick rather than the other way around? A woman can only carry one pregnancy at a time whereas a man could, theoretically, impregnate multiple partners in the space of one day.

Given that it a biological (and legal) fact that men get no say over whether or not a pregnancy will be continued once created, they should be very cautious about where they leave their ejaculate. Condoms, vasectomies, and abstinence all exist for those men who would like to not risk inseminating their partner.

The faults of feckless men are nothing to do with women. Women are not responsible for shitty men.

The sperm is freely given away

Anyone can express any opinion they want. They'll still have it even if they don't express it. This isn't how you convince and persuade people

Your opinions are ridiculous. But….once again, as I have already stated, I am not talking about men who get their partner pregnant who then disagree with their choice to have an abortion. While ultimately it should still be 100% the woman’s choice, of course the father is entitled to an opinion and I recognise it can be difficult and there is a level of unfairness there. I am talking about men in positions of power and influence, like politicians, with large audiences, who speak generally (and influence people) about the issue of abortion and how “women should not be legally allowed to have them”. I don’t believe they have any right to publicly voice these opinions and potentially gain support for this ridiculous idea because they are charismatic, likeable personalities. It’s dangerous.

The particular man I was watching on YouTube was speaking about not allowing abortions in cases of rape. How would you feel if you got pregnant as a result of sexual assault at, say age 16? Or how would you feel if you had very safe, sensible, protected sex with your boyfriend at 16 and the condom broke? Your parents kicked you out and you had no way to support yourself or your child. You really think a young woman in this situation should be forced to put her body through a life-threatening process just to give birth to an unwanted child who she cannot provide for? Where’s the logic ??