To think that “failing upward” is way too common?

[ForBreezySloth]

I’ve lost count of the number of people I’ve come across who were clearly struggling in their roles - only to end up getting promoted. It’s like some workplaces would rather move someone up than deal with the hassle of replacing them properly. Is this just my experience or is failing upwards a real phenomenon?

Yes, loads 🙈

Yes seen this happen in public and private sector roles. It's horrid.

As a general principle though, yes if you want rid of an employee, a good reference is useful to move them away. Where it's in same group or whatever I think its jobs for the boys mentally.

Time serving in local government can lead to promotion regardless of ability! Times may have changed, but being a member of the right political party certainly aided some promotions in one council I worked for years ago.

Yes lots of people get promoted above their skill levels, but lot's of people are impossible to manage well. Won't take direction, won't do the tasks assigned to them or will pick and choose, are exceptionally unreasonable with holiday requests, miss deadlines, can't manage perfectly ok workloads and won't ask for help. Can't blame everything on 'the Peter Principle'.

The other reason for it can be incompetent people surrounding themselves with other incompetents, so that their own failings and insecurities are not uncovered. Leaving the capable mortals below them to pick up their pieces and run the show.

I think it’s less about finding it funny and more about not dealing with the problem / kicking the can down the road. It’s difficult to fire someone and someone in a more operational role whose shit will have a bigger impact on the team.

Yes my local authority. The shite floats to the top unfortunately

NHS and local authorities

not even sure they realise they are promoting incompetent folk (or at least that’s what I hope) they’ll often have gift of gab

we have one at our work, everyone has had enough does nothing gets paid double 🙄

My mentor always told me the number 1 rule of progress is don't be too good at your job.

I think 70% works out quite well.

Sadly this particular phenomenon seems to have passed me and my OH by - perhaps we are just too darned competent!! I'd rather have the extra salary from a higher position though.

You mean, you've seen people be promoted in order to set them up to fail and sack them?

I assumed that must be very rare. The poor woman I mentioned must have assumed she was doing really well in her career as she was flying up the ladder, then suddenly, she could do nothing right and was forced out. Brutal.

I expect we've all met a woman (and it usually is a woman), who works in admin for a small company. I'll call her Sue. Sue is one of very few people who can read the MD's terrible handwriting and she also understand his idiosyncratic filing system. When it comes to booking a client lunch, train tickets to a conference, or a hotel room, Sue knows exactly what his preferences are. And she knows how the regular clients like their work to be presented, their tea served at meetings and where they are all going on holiday.

Sue's job title is probably "secretary", "admin assistant" or "PA", but she wears several other hats. For example, if the company needs a health and safety manager in order to comply with legislation, Sue will be it. She also updates the company website, manages the cashflow (fending off irate suppliers whose invoices are overdue) and helps with payroll, although a qualified accountant will probably do the books.

Sue is not considered a fee earner or professional, so her pay is low and whilst her pay will gradually rise in line with inflation, she will never be promoted. It would take far too long to train another Sue.

Ohhh, yes, Failing Grayling.

Thank you, I knew I'd bookmarked a male canonical example to complement Dido Harding.

I should update my mental list, but there's just so much choice...

This.

In education they are a senior teacher/DT a rung below the rather limited HT.

Welcome to the civil service!

I think in teaching people go for promotion if they are willing to put the hours in and think they might want to be head one day. That generally seems to be men in their 30’s or people who have been persuaded into it. I can earn a lot more from tutoring so there doesn’t seem much point. There also becomes more pressure to go for promotion as you get more experienced because of the way the pay works. It becomes easier to move up than sideways.

I've not really seen it. Maybe once or twice people get promoted and fail and they get weeded out, but not just promoted and left in situ. Maybe I work in a tough world where it's harder to hide incompetence? I suppose I could imagine it more in some settings...

Why do you think the NHS is in such a mess?! Some folk don't go for promotion even though they could do the job well, only to see under skilled over promoted Lazybones with the ego of Trump promoted way beyond their ability because their face fits in some way and they've been the only applicant. Our department has one such "leader" at the moment who mystifies us all. I honestly don't know where they could be moved to that wouldn't be extraordinarily damaging to the organisation. I'll be retired before anything is done about them though...

My wife works as a nurse sister in a hospital (combined ICU/CCU - so critical care). When the senior sister position became available on the CCU side the "matron" appointed someone who was her personal pal (not UK, a country well known for this sort of practices). This person was clearly under qualified for this sort of role, had poor management and clinical skills. As a result, the operation of that side of the unit became unsafe, and most of the experienced staff left. Matron's pal left after 9 months after loads of doctors complained (sacked, basically). Blow me down, but "matron" has just done it again! The new incumbent is practically a facsimile of the previous, and doctors are already complaining. My wife thinks "matron" will probably be for chop soon, which my solve the problem going forward

Same in NHS. Get them away from the patients, give them a management role.

Definitely the NHS!! Can’t sack them, so they promote them!

Even working for a law firm - I’ve seen people grumble and accuse others of brown nosing and who say ‘ only working my allotted hours and no more’. Fair enough - but then when promotions are looked at (or bonuses) they will moan that they don’t get anywhere. The people who do progress and get the pay rises etc are those who put in the extra hours and really graft hard.

I’ve also known one or two firms promote someone to try and manage them out under a PIP… they knew the employee wouldn’t be able to keep up with the role. That was underhand and I was disgusted.

Definitely happens in local authority where it’s impossible to sack people.

Happens quite a lot in my job. It’s very easy for some to pass a theory exam (a common way to gain promotion in my field) if you are good at exams, quite another to put your practice and interpersonal skills to use in the “real world”.