To think the RNLI are 100% in the right

[SanFranBear]

I've just seen this story on the BBC news homepage where the RNLI are being accused of acting as a taxi service for migrants trying to enter the UK on small boats from Europe.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8dejyg4l37o

The organisation and volunteers quite rightly have responded to say they make no apologies for saving lives at sea and that their work has no political motivation.

Damn straight - one of the volunteers further down the article explains the profound impact he feels of encountering people struggling in our waters.

It makes me wonder what critics of the service expect them to do - just sail away, leaving the people to die? Pick them up and cross the channel to dump them back 'where they came from'?

What is wrong with them? Where is their compassion? Regardless of your thoughts on immigration, this is so cold and inhuman....

I spent some time with an asylum seeker when he was (illegally) decorating a house I was staying in, as a favour to the homeowner. He had been waiting 17 years for his asylum application to be processed. He was desperately poor.

I thought Ukranian refugees had their identity papers with them and surely they would have been vetted as well if they were applying for jobs in the care sector.

It’s an UNLESS situation.
It’s illegal to enter a country trying to without paperwork UNLESS you claim asylum as soon as practicable.
Just like it’s illegal to kill someone UNLESS it’s in self defence.
Things can often be illegal UNLESS something else pertains.

My friend is a children's social worker and has to collect unaccompanied "minors", and is adamant that in her professional opinion many are not. She is frequently alone in a car with unknown men who cannot communicate with spoken language. She has reported this as a safeguarding issue (lone female worker) and has been ignored.

Unfortunately, this is now a pointless law because we have social media and charity workers telling people to claim asylum and what to say, whether they would have ever really been genuine asylum seekers or not. Unfortunately, there's no political will to change the Convention and western nations are terrified of being branded as racist for questioning the relevance in today's global conditions.

There wasn’t a problem with boat crossings until Brexit - probably for this very reason.

People keep repeating this without basis.

Whether they have a reason to claim asylum isn’t the point.

Here you go.
https://politicalquarterly.org.uk/blog/the-uks-refugee-invasion-is-a-brexit-made-policy-failure/

Does this cover peak asylum in 2002 pre Brexit?

At around 85k

Why do you think it was so high? We could ‘send them back’ right?

And Germany can ‘send them back’ to Italy too? No Brexit there. Only first entry countries have a migration issue rn I assume, according to posters here.

So, your "non knuckle dragging" solution is to just allow the avoidable drowning of men women and children? You personally would feel OK to stand by and watch from a boat as they drowned in front of your eyes, knowing you could save them but you just... won't?

You don't think that is in any way morally bankrupt? Traumatic for the rnli staff and volunteers you're expecting to carry this out?

You don't solve crime and exploitation by just killing off vulnerable people.

This is a multifaceted problem - our asylum process is unfit for purpose for a start. We have an ingrained problem with housing and cost of living and sustainability of key services because of decades long austerity and intentional under funding by the government. The UK has long been involved in the destabilising of countries for financial gain and now we are surprised people are fleeing those same countries. The lack of resources we've left in our wake is exactly what's allowed for extremism and gangs and violence to take over which is where these people smugglers are stemming from. Our NHS etc is dependent on immigration for staffing. A tiny proportion of immigrants depend on benefits- the rest work and contribute to our economy. We have plenty of criminals who are locally grown and if you want to address the issue of integration then again that takes gov to stop under funding community level services the way they have been and continue to do. Plenty of ways to tackle this although none a fast fix. Just killing off the people who are in genuine need - that's not it.

@2dogsandabudgie do you understand how bad the living conditions in refugee camps in other countries are? The lack of safety for women and children? Issues with disease or lack of food or fire risk etc? Yes. There is need. In an ideal world our asylum system would be better, more efficient and easier for vulnerable people to navigate and they would choose that instead but the reality is, it isn't fit for purpose so that's not an option for many people.

I wouldn't say that it's without basis. It's a complex and multifaceted issue but the numbers have increased exponentially since Brexit. And there are academic studies which point to the Tory government's failure to negotiate a returns arrangement as part of the Brexit deal as being a key factor in this.

https://www.durham.ac.uk/departments/academic/law/news-and-events/news/2023/february/new-report-on-small-boat-crossings-launched-by-professor-thom-brooks/

Was that peak boat crossings? We are discussing boat crossings as a Brexit issue.
We withdrew from the EU on Jan 31st 2020. That shows a distinct increase after that date. Also read the piece 8n stead of extrapolating from one graph.

They’ve increased since Labour got in yes but overall lorry entry numbers were just as high in 2002 as 2024.

That opinion piece below mentions the DA and first entry, that’s a basic mistake and clearly not the case. Has anyone looked at Germany’s numbers when they write this stuff?

If you’re arguing for a new returns deal that’s separate to the DA which is not working for any country rn. If the pp think it is then perhaps someone can say which country is using it well?

Which country do you think is using the DA within the EU to resolve the issue?

In 2002, the top nationalities applying for asylum in the UK were from Iraq, followed by Afghanistan and Somalia,

What do you think caused it?

The numbers haven't only increased since Labour got in!

• 2018: 299 arrivals
• 2019: 1,843 arrivals
• 2020: 8,466 arrivals
• 2021: 28,526 arrivals
• 2022: 45,774 arrivals
• 2023: 29,437 arrivals
• 2024: 36,816 arrivals

Repeat post

Ok before this pls say which country is using the Dublin Agreement to resolve the issue.

There’s this belief it worked to do something, therefore other countries must still have that benefit. Which one are you looking at? If you can say I’m happy to consider it.

The Dublin agreement wasn't great but it was better than leaving with no agreements in place and no access to criminal and security data bases

Johnson's oven ready deal left the UK with nothing.

The ones profiting massively from having them there. No one wants to live in a vermin infested, hovel. Its brainwashed delusion and/or racism to think otherwise.

It should be. It's costing us over £7m per day to accommodate people who most likely are not entitled to refugee status, and are simply chancing their arm.

It just wasn’t set up to do what people are thinking it does or should do.

That’s why for example Germany has the same issues with migrant pressures and also still the crime issue. The security part you cite also doesn’t stop those problems.

But if pp can say a country where it’s doing what they think it should, I’ll read with interest.

But you agree that Brexit has had a negative impact on how the UK can deal with refugees and asylum seekers?

I didn’t vote for Brexit but the stuff that gets repeated on the DA just doesn’t stack up. If it did the rest of the EU wouldn’t be facing pretty much the same as us.

The inability to send people ‘back’ somewhere, first countries can refuse under the DA and the numbers are very low, and the lack of security. They are evident problems still in the EU rn and increasing.

In answer to your question I don’t think we have much less ability to deal with it due to Brexit, and actually could have more if voters give mandate.

Although things could change with a new EU pact, not sure how that will pan out.