To think that there is no hope here?

[Taxed]

52.6% of UK individuals are reliant on the State (that is 35 million people). Only 47.4% are net contributors. How did we get here?

AIBU to think that the UK is now a declining economy that will never recover if this continues to be the case?

I am 49 and a high earner (just shy of the top 1%). My husband is also a high earner and we are thinking of leaving. We don't know where but we know we have to as the situation in the UK is getting worse not better. The only thing that is keeping us here is our son, who is still in secondary school. I am actively encouraging him to consider a future outside of the UK.

I genuinely feel that being ambitious and successful is not worth it in the UK. People hate you for it and want to see you penalised. They think that whatever you do to earn the money it must be easy and a breeze. That you are greedy and need to be made to pay for doing well. Just last week, I heard that the government might be thinking of implementing a charge, payable by high earners, to access the NHS. Everything is about taxing the already heavily taxed even more and few want to face up to the fact that this is unsustainable when you have most of your people relying on the State to live.

People complain about the immigrants but they make up a tiny proportion of 35 million.

I feel disliked for doing well and just can't see a future here and it is making me angry and sad. I believe in having a welfare state, in helping those who are in need but 52.6%? The country is on its knees when most of its people are in need. That is like a developing country not a developed and thriving economy.

Sorry for the long rant. I'm just tired, sad and have just about lost hope of enjoying life in the UK.

Well said

You feeled entitled to her money do you mean? Money that she has worked for presumably?.

Entitlement is an odd one here. One person earned it the other is annoyed they are making rational decisions based on taxes.

Note to self.

Never debate with a stupid person - they will only seek to drag you down to their level.

True, it’s batshittery of the highest level to get so worked up about that. The mind boggles.

Why one earth would anyone thank you for paying tax? It is a legal requirement, not a generous voluntary gesture and it is clear that you are wealthy enough to employ experts to reduce your tax liability in ways that low paid workers on PAYE couldn't do.

We can lecture you on morality as much as we want, as long as we don't break Mumsnet guidelines. It would be a pointless exercise though.

Feel free to leave this tax jurisdiction. No-one is going to beg you to stay.

I think it’s entitlement isn’t it to do so. Why would they feel it’s up to them to control someone for their taxes. Bizarre.

I'd rather that they weren't leaving because that will force the government to come after the low paid PAYE workers to raise the monies required.

For the purposes of this thread, in intentionally simplistic terms, what I am asking is whether you think people who have more than X amount of money should have to pay more tax than people who have Y (smaller amount). Feel free to call that a 'deliberately skewed' question if you want, but it's what I am trying to establish.

And no I'm not going to define X or Y because it's not relevant to what I am trying to get at here. What I am trying to get at is whether you think it's reasonable that people who have more money should pay more tax, or whether you think they should be paying the same as people who have less.

We should all pay what is reasonable and no more. Tax policy should be predictable so people can plan how to keep as much of their own money as legally possible. Tax policy should also be intelligent and not focused on idealogical spite which is counter productive and costs more money than it raises. That is unfair to Tax payers.

To the people who are relaxed that high tax payers are leaving the country they are, I'm afraid, fools. Because no one owes anyone anything and if there's no money coming in to the state coffers then there's no money coming out. Rachel Reeves actually seems to be finally learning the error of her ways but probably too late.

Your question is impossible to answer, given you yourself don’t know what it is that you are asking.

Doh.

Trump has weaponised the US economy (rightly, or wrongly).
There is conflict raging in Ukraine.
There is conflict raging in the Middle East.
We have a rapidly re-arming world with its inflationary impact.
There is cyber/IP warfare originating from China.
There is the potential for an invasion of Taiwan.
We have an ageing demographic in the west.
We have uncontrollable immigration in the west.
We have rapid developments in AI with consequence for the society and workers.

And yet, the current beneficiaries of state largesse via social support etc, want the rest of us to pay ever increasing sums in tax?

Utter, utter, naivety.

I have a question about this whole net contributor thing. I'm no economist so forgive me if it's a daft question.

I have a professional job, working 4 days a week so as to spend some time with kids, work hard, earn around £50k. Two kids in state school. Use NHS occasionally when needed like most people. Lucky to not have a disability or serious illness. Happily pay my taxes.

I assume I'm behaving like a decent citizen of this country. However the implication on here is I should be going off and calculating if I'm a net contributor or not. Surely that should be a government calculation? And if someone like me isn't contributing enough to "cover my costs", surely I should be charged more tax? Which as it happens I'd be happy to pay.

But surely it's not on me as an individual to work out if I'm a net contributor or not? And what should I do about it if not - voluntarily write an extra cheque to HMRC?

Professional job, eh...I see Labour are now restricting the civil service to children of the working class. And in their book, cos you not down pit, your children don't count.

In that case, nobody would count, given that pits no longer exist in the UK. The last one closed ten years ago.

Oh don't be so literal! 🤣

Plus it’s the parents’ jobs that are assessed. Somehow.

Running out of pithy comebacks, I see.

Labour isn’t working, is it?

Good grief.

If you and possibly others on this thread are really hellbent on trying to avoid saying 'I want to keep most of my money, and to fuck with society' being purposely disingenuous, here you are then:

If person A earns £45k a year and person B earns £90k (let's assume same amount of savings and other assets before you start to split hairs re that), are you proposing persons A and B should pay the same amount of tax?

Jeez, hard work or what.

How would you define reasonable?

If person A earns £45k a year and person B earns £90k (let's assume same amount of savings and other assets before you start to split hairs re that), are you proposing persons A and B should pay the same amount of tax?

No.

That's going to be a judgement call for the government. Most Chancellors will tax what they think they can get away with without stifling growth unless you are Rachel Reeves.

Anyone numerate and rational should care that the millionaires and non-doms are leaving.

The non-doms may only pay tax on their (often substantial) UK income - but these people are, from my professional experience, wealth-creators, employers, and high spenders.

You may despise them for what they spend their money on - but this is cash recirculating through the economy again and again.

They will be greatly missed - not just by the Treasury, the estate agents, the private schools, the hairdressers, the restaurants, and all the services they use themselves - but by the people lower down the food chain, the businesses that the estate agents, private teachers, hairdressers, restaurant staff and all the rest use too.

Replacing them with a whole load of ultra low-skilled deliveroo drivers and cocaine delivery boys is insanity…

I understand completely. The pensioners that lunch out or are early evening diners are ensuring that cafes and restaurants keep going around here all week. That means they're open at weekends for working adults.

If we lose the high earners pensioners are a soft target. Their council tax, water rates and energy costs have risen greatly.

They're going to lose their 25% tax free option when their pension kicks in. That paid for downsizing, home improvement which kept solicitors, construction in work.

Honestly, anyone too thick to not have figured this out already has no hope. Unfortunately for the rest of us, these people get to vote. Hence proving OP’s point.