To not understand how the situation in Gaza is being allowed to continue

[Jenry]

What the hell. How are we allowing children to starve
what kind of justification do Israel have and where are the people who are meant to keep us safe
I don’t see how anyone can defend this
it’s shocking

@Thegreyhound No it is not, we are not in charge of the world. Rule Britania was a while back and we have no authority in Gaza, as we don't in Sudan, Somalia, Ethiopia or Yemen, China, Afganistan and other countries where innocent people die in their millions. The obsession with this one war is, as PP say, striking.

The UK and the EU as allies of Israel have plenty of options to exert pressure in this situation as does the whole international community. Their inertia and inability to uphold international law is striking and the governments are way behind public opinion on this.

So I was right about the melodrama. Assuming my opinion before I’ve answered.

What am I minimising? Can you quote me directly where I’ve minimised?

Let me ask you, do you think Israel’s response to the horrific Oct 7th has been “MEASURED” as you put it?

I think there are a huge amount of nuances that go beyond Israel = bad and Palestine = Good. Israel HAD to do something when Hamas showed them their violent Jew hating hand, and also showed how well financed and resourced they are in trying to take Jews off the face of the earth. There is an argument for not starting wars with stronger power if you dont want to be attacked back. I’d advise listening to interviews with freed hostages to see if Hamas are just peacekeepers or if indeed they hate Jews. Not to mention aid blockages are a common war tactic - we starved Germany in WW2 when they invaded Poland for example. And Israel HAVE let aid in.

BUT there have been far too many “whoopsie we didn’t mean to do that awful thing to civilians” in this conflict from Israel. Wars inevitably mean mistakes and both sides going too far, there has been no side that’s perfectly behaved in ANY war. But Netenyahu is clearly a total maniac and 100% could do MUCH more to ease the suffering of Gazan civilians whilst fighting against Hamas. The fact he doesn’t do more turns my stomach - I don’t believe he cares for a single Gazan life, and there’s a good reason so many Israeli citizens and politicians are deeply concerned and are against him.

Now I’ve answered your question, will you care to answer mine?

And stop trying to imply support for Hamas or imply antisemitism to people who are heartbroken for the treatment of Gazans

I haven’t. Again with the twisting of words. I’m simply saying there ARE antisemitic narratives around the conflict. I can give examples if you’re at all interested?

How incredibly brave of you. I’m sorry for the long lasting trauma you will no doubt have to deal with with the horrors you will be seeing in Gaza. What is Israel is doing is unforgivable.

From this statement or question I can tell you’re deliberately goading and being extremely disingenuous

Really? You were the one who first mentioned antisemitism being a lie.

Maybe two things can be true - Israel can be doing abominable things whilst being victims of antismeitism

Antisemitism in the U.K. has risen 500% since October 7th. Why do you think that is? Shouldn’t we be concerned about this rather than being told talking about it is <checks notes> goady?

Again twisting my words. Never have I ever said or implied or defended Hamas.

I didn’t say you had.

Effectively, because terrorist Hamas are anti Israel, the civilians deserve to be starved. That’s what your reasoning boils down to.

What are you actually banging on about? You’re literally making things up whilst moaning about having your words twisted.

im trying to have an adult conversation and you’re behaving like a stroppy toddler

Effectively, because terrorist Hamas are anti Israel, the civilians deserve to be starved. That’s what your reasoning boils down to.

These are the punchy statement I mean. I’m sure you think you sound clever but you’re embarrassing yourself.

show me where I’ve justified anything. I’ll wait. Meanwhile do you fancy answering any questions I’ve asked?

You cannot draw ww2 parallels it’s not the same at all. What Israel has done mirrors the holocaust and it is so appalling so depraved that the definition of genocide is likely to be revised because new levels of unimaginable cruelty have been reached.

Israel erected its state by force. It is an occupying force from day 1 hell bent on erasing the indigenous population to claim land and resources.

The wider implications of Gaza are also concerning if a super power wishes to take your home and you happen to resist then they will use all manner of brutality to take that land. That is the dangerous precedent being set here because it’s all down to hegemony, land and resources under it. that is why children are being starved and deliberately targeted because they are the future claimants of those places and with them out of the way it it certainly makes it easier.

Well when it comes to blocking aid I can draw comparison because it’s generally the same whoever does it.

But I agree you can’t draw comparison with WW2 - what’s happening in Gaza is completely incomparable to what happened in the Holocaust. and the IHRA charter rightly states it’s antisemitic to do so (yeah I’ve said it you may not like me going there but it’s true).

What it CAN compare it to is other conflicts happening in the world right now involving terrorist groups and states.

It IS interesting though how of alllll the past conflicts in the world, and all the current ones, you use these two as comparisons. Why is that?

Also please do some research Round the creation of Israel and exactly what happened when Arabs in the area knew they were going to have Jewish neighbours. But seeing as you’re here, I’ll ask: if you’d spent your whole life being targetted for your ethnicity, to the point you are starved, tortured, exiled (again) and end up surviving a nightmare few years of pushing your dead relatives around in wheelbarrows to mass graves, and then were liberated, what would you do? You’d try and go home right? But what if you found you were unable to because you’d lost everything and were even more hated than before the war by ordinary citizens, and there was no safe place anywhere in the world to go because you’d be killed? And you were offered a place where your ancestors originated, offered it legally, a chance to escape Holocaust 2.0 and rebuild your life in total safety of your people…what would you do?

The issue you have is that far too many people are very much educated re the creation of Israel and its origins. You start at Balfour and you end up at today’s genocide. The current settlors are not ‘going home’ they hail from Europe much like other settlors who caused genocides and apartheids when landing on other’s turf. Plenty of examples throughout history.

It is also highly antisemitic of you to suggest Jewish people are behind what’s happening in Gaza and Palestine.

It’s not a conflict, it’s a genocide by an apartheid regime that is an occupying force. It get’s compared rightly to holocaust because don’t educate generations re the holocaust and tell us to never forget and never again and then expect people to turn a blind eye because it’s happening to some brown people far away. All humans are equal.

But seeing as you’re here, I’ll ask: if you’d spent your whole life being targetted for your ethnicity, to the point you are starved, tortured, exiled (again) and end up surviving a nightmare few years of pushing your dead relatives around in wheelbarrows to mass graves, and then were liberated, what would you do? You’d try and go home right?

Sounds like Palestine/Gaza to me …

What a surprise, you didn’t answer my question about what you’d do. People who post the kind of content you do never seem to want to do that!

I suggest you extend your education on the start of Israel beyond whatever bile you’re reading.

Just to check are you generally anti-immigration?? Or just when it’s Jews? By “current settlers” who do you mean? The 1.2% of people in Israel today who legally emigrated to Israel in 1948 or the other 98.8% who were born and raised there?

Yes Jews who emigrated to Israel originated from Europe - but hadn’t you heard, something happened there that made it really quite dangerous to be a Jew. Or have you bought the Hollywood tale of Jews being welcomed back with open arms?

I’ll ask you again - what would you have done in that situation. Can you maybe answer about referring to a situation that didn’t even exist at the time? Can you manage that?

It is also highly antisemitic of you to suggest Jewish people are behind what’s happening in Gaza and Palestine.

Turning the antisemitism accusation around, colour me shocked. Really I should place bets on the responses, they’re always the same (as funnily enough are the three worded usernames)

But to respond - I didn’t say that. Try harder

Except what you have said IS antisemitic. How do you feel about that?

And again it’s interesting that when I talk about the Holocaust you say “Sounds like Palestine to me” - how come despite the fact Palestinians are the only people to experience exile, or even the latest people, you use that comparison. Why?

Also: so what. Why does that stop you answering the question?

Though I don’t recall a state governed by Jewish violent terrorists that Germans couldn’t step into because they’d be murdered. Perhaps you could point me to it

@Thegreyhound the only person with any power in this insane medieval religion blood bath is Trump. Good luck with talking him round. Perhaps he can sort all the other wars and millions of dying starving children too.
The Israeli government and Hamas are not small children who need to be told off - they are men hell bend on total destruction and all out war. Thinking Britain has a voice that will he listened to is laughably narcasistic. The EU and Europe have no power and look ridiculous posturing.
But as I said, the focus on this one war and the all encompassing obsession when I have been desperately fund raising for Sudan for over 15 years is startling.

If anyone genuinely believes that Dancingintherainxxx is a doctor of any kind, I have a bridge to sell you.

By this same token, you could argue that Israel have used October 7th as a charter for their genocide & the destruction of Palestine.

Starving children is not a means of self defence.

To answer your question I wouldn’t be deliberately starving innocent children for sure.

Well that didn’t answer my question though. Imagine you’re in 1948 and are in danger living in Europe - what would you do if legally and fairly offered to emigrate to another country?

So many threads about this. It isnt the only armed conflict in the world where people are starving.

Whats your AIBU?

Ask Hamas. It's entirely on them.

I think this thread shows some people want to just sit in an echo chamber, are too afraid to have a nuanced conversation and most certainly don’t want to be educated on how they can be both pro-Palestinian and not anti-Semitic. Speaks volumes doesn it. I don’t know why you wouldn’t want to learn about how not to be racist…unless you’re a massive racist.

I don’t think Hamas are responsible for the 150 children found dead from Gunshot wounds. Or are we to believe they were Hamas operatives?

Both sides engage in false flag attacks and have for a long time. Truth is very difficult to unravel in all this.

Israel isn't justifying anything. After the attacks by Hamas the government have decided they want the Palestinian people gone from Gaza. They don't care if they leave on their feet or in coffins, they want them gone so they can secure their border once and for all.

It's a horrific situation but given the things both sides have been doing to each other for centuries I'm not sure there can ever be peace until one side is completely gone.

It isn’t an ‘insane medieval religion bloodbath’ as you put it, it’s a coloniser state taking land and ethnically cleansing, aided and abetted by other countries for financial or other gain.

The EU has many trade agreements with Israel and should be placing sanctions. All weapons and component sales should stop. Cultural and sporting bans should be put in place. Trump and the US are not the only players in the game.

Firstly I would argue that calling this a humanitarian crisis implies that this just an unfortunate incident, like an earthquake or a hurricane rather than the genocide/ethnic cleaning which it is.
Secondly whilst there are horrific things going on all over the world, this is one that is fully aided and abetted by the West and my own country, the US, in particular which could stop this simply by withholding weapons and financial support.
This is the reason why people in the West are so fixated on this particular “humanitarian crisis”.