To think it's crazy to be planning a holiday to the USA right now

[Fragmentedbrain]

I know border control there has never been a relaxed experience but the risk of being detained arbitrarily for weeks or longer seems unacceptably high now.

Whilst I agree that the US is both unpleasant and aggressive in the way that it deals with people, this is nothing new. 30 years ago DH arrived Hawaii with no accommodation booked (backpacking) and faced full on questioning about what he was doing there.

I do agree, I had similar questioning when I rocked up to hike the pct with no accommodation booked. I didn’t even have an outbound flight booked. But you were let in, and so was I. I wouldn’t be that confident now.

Nope.

It was quite clear on your post that I responded to that you’d said the B2 visa holder had been deported because she’d not had accommodation booked.

Here’s what you said:

Yes I’m well aware of that thanks. Hence why I specified in my post it was a b2 visa, for clarity. But the point is the same, someone with a valid tourist visa has been denied entry because they don’t have accommodation booked, 🤷‍♀️

I can screenshot if you want to argue about it, but I’m not sure who’d be more embarrassed, me for making a point or you for being so disingenuous.

My actual mistake was thinking the 2 German teenagers had a b2 visa if you really want to know.

You are also quoting a post I had replied to,ting to someone else before you even started interrogating me (with zero clarity) about who had been deported for lack of accommodation.

you can screenshot me all you want, I’m not denying I’ve said anything. I think there is quite a mild of confusion at several points between us over which case we’re talking about.

Do you disagree with the German hiker Annika that her lack of accommodation probably played a part in her hiking story not being believed? She has spoken about it on Reddit and she certainly seemed to think it did.

Yes I’m well aware of that thanks. Hence why I specified in my post it was a b2 visa, for clarity. But the point is the same, someone with a valid tourist visa has been denied entry because they don’t have accommodation booked, 🤷‍♀️

and I totally stand by that point. Actually two separate points, both of which are true.

1. I am aware that a b2 visa is different to an esta. Seeing as I’ve had a b2 visa myself.

2. And someone (the two girls in Hawaii) had a valid visa and were denied entry due to no accommodation. That was clearly told to them as the reason.

its also very likely that for the third German her lack of accommodation would have been a big part in the decision to deny her entry.

And your post at 22:01 was immediately after a long post about the Hawaii case. So because you didn’t say who you were talking about it was fairly reasonable to think you were talking about the Hawaii case. Maybe be a bit clearer next time? Helps everyone. 👍

My DD went to NY earlier in the year and we’re planning a family trip next year to the US. We’ve no concerns over travelling anywhere else.

We also must have been very lucky as in all our trips (normally every other year ish) I’ve never had a grumpy border official - I’ve always found them quite friendly.

I’m being ‘snarky’ because;

(a) you claimed that the woman on the B2 visa had been denied entry on the basis of having no accommodation booked, yet that wasn’t mentioned in the article you posted as evidence.

and

(b) there was no confusion on my side over ‘that woman’ (your words) because I stated ‘the woman on the B2 visa’ in my reply to you. I also specifically asked you if it was the woman on the B2 visa and you said yes.

I can add screenshots if that would make it easier for you?

Just for ‘clarity’ of course.

@NigelPonsonbySmallpiece

My actual mistake was thinking the 2 German teenagers had a b2 visa if you really want to know.

It was widely reported in the press that they had ESTAs.

Dear oh dear. Post all the screenshots you want. 😂. Like I said I’m not denying it. But it’s blatantly obvious I was talking about the German teenagers in Hawaii, hence why when you asked me to provide a quote I immediately copied a quote from the article about the German teenagers in Hawaii.

when I made my post which said “I’ve read about people with a b2 visa who have been denied entry on landing due to not having accommodation booked”. That was before I had posted or indeed found the links to the two articles I subsequently posted. So at that point I was talking quite generally and was thinking more of the stories I’ve been reading about on my fb hiking groups.

another poster immediately pointed out that a b2 is different to an esta to which I replied that I knew. While engaging in that discussion I was also searching for any news articles and found those two and posted them.

but none of my conversations up to this point had been about either the two in Hawaii or Anneka specifically.

so I was engaged in a discussion with someone else and you popped up and said “Did that article say that she was deported because she didn’t have accommodation booked?”

you did not specify which article or person. You didn’t say if it was about someone with an esta or a b2. Because in my mind I’m having a conversation with the other poster about the two girls in Hawaii and you were very unclear which article you were talking about I (incorrectly) believed you were talking about the Hawaii girls. Which is why in response to your next request to provide a quote I quoted the article about the Hawaii case.

now most normal people in that situation if they were you, would have said “oh no i didn’t mean the Hawaii girls, I meant the other German girl, Anneka”.

but oh no, not you. Instead you have since that point being on some sort of illogical crusade to ….well I don’t know what to be honest. You’re utterly bizarre to tell the truth.

this would all have been avoided if you had been clearer and not said “that article”. How am I supposed to know what on earth you’re talking about.

i genuinely think you need to take a good look at yourself and how you interact with people. You’re making an absolute mountain out of a molehill, and it’s something you have caused in the first place. Which you seem blind to. Like I said post all the screenshots you want. You want embarrass me at all, you’re embarrassing yourself no end.

its very telling that you said something to me about “if you want to argue”. Of course I don’t want to argue and never have done. Most people would think they were having a discussion. How every telling about the sort of person you are that you immediately frame it as an argument. Are you this combative in real life?

I hope you enjoy what’s left of your evening.

So now we are both In Agreement that tourists with both estas and b2 visas may be turned away at the border if they don’t believe the purpose of your trip and that not booking accommodation may increase the risk of you not being believed. Perfect. No need for any argument at all see. 😁

@NigelPonsonbySmallpiece

I just get annoyed with idiots posting rubbish.

You weren’t talking about the German girls in Hawaii with ESTAs, you were talking about the woman with the B2 visa wanting to go hiking.

The woman with the B2 visa was not denied entry for not having accommodation booked (according to the link that you posted).

The German girls had an ESTA but couldn’t show proof of accommodation

Can you see the difference?

We can be in agreement that US immigration can deny entry for various reasons. You need to understand the rules and conform.

I do hope you have the most wonderful Sunday. May the Lord be with you and help you ponder on your fuck ups.

Yeah, right. There have been Germans, Canadians and Australians strip-searched and detained for weeks rather than just being refused entry. This has happened at both land borders and airports.

If you're talking about the German hikers in Hawaii, they were detained for a few hours before being deported. And not to point out the obvious, but Canada and Australia are not in Europe.

You’re the only idiot sweetie. The post you have screenshot of mine was in reply to someone else, about a different angle. How could it be about Anneka when at that point I hadn’t even posted the link to the Anneka story? Which I have tried explaining to you more than once but you just don’t seem capable of understanding. Can you not see that? Really? It’s not that hard a concept to grasp? Can you see the difference?

the person who “fucked up” was you asking unclear questions. If you want to know an answer about a specific article when two have been posted you need to say which one. It’s not that difficult

so don’t spout rubbish telling me who I was or not talking about. How could I be posting about anyone or a specific article before I’d even read or posted the articles. The maths ain’t mathing 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Although to be honest there really isn’t much difference. It is well known that not having accommodation booked is a major red flag for not being believed as to your intentions. None of the people in the two articles had accommodation booked, all were denied entry. Their intentions for their trips weren’t believed. Two on an esta, one on a b2.

I’m going to visit my sister in the US next week, I paid £17 for my ESTA.

I am aware of some people who have been detained but they seem to have some background story re why they could not enter, like not having accommodation pre booked, suspected of intending to work illegally, taken part in anti gvt action etc.

Hopefully I won’t have any problems but I have deleted a few dodgy/funny WhatsApp messages about Trump that friends have sent me! I have always been told by family who now live in the US not to be over familiar with customs people as they don’t seem to want idle chit chat or jokes, they take their jobs very seriously.

As a 66 yr old woman being assisted through the airport in a wheelchair, hopefully I will be fine!

Highly unlikely that you would be detained "arbitrarily" as a UK citizen unless you have a history of breaking the law in the US.

ICE are not interested in you. They are doing raids on undocumented "illegal immigrants" - they have little to no interest in anyone from the UK going on vacation to disneyland. Just don't overstay your visa and don't break the law while you are there. But the same thing goes for visiting any country!

You are worrying waaaaaay too much! They are not interested in people visiting from the UK unless there is a past history of overstaying a visa/being in the country without a visa. Or having a daft intent: like entering with the intent to get a job, or having no place to stay. Those are red flags because they don't want people entering on a tourist visa who have no intention of actually being a tourist - i.e. their intent is to stay.

This is nothing new when it comes to US immigration services. They are ALWAYS concerned about people overstaying visas and entering the US with either no financial means to support themselves while there, or with no actual intent of leaving. If you have a place to stay and a return ticket home you're fine. Stop worrying.

And, unlike most people posting here I actually have decades of experience going back and forth to the US. And I'm also a lawyer.

Just got back from America, family of 4 and they didn’t question us at all other than the usual ‘what are you here for’ bit. Passport control were perfectly pleasant. Didn’t see them interrogate anyone else on our flight while we were queuing. As we were leaving America they did ask our children for their dad’s birthday which did cause a moment’s pause 😅

And you are embarrassing yourself like I predicted. Your little screenshot demonstrates how rubbish your quoting skills are. Why did you as per your screenshot quote a post of mine made before I’d even posted any article. Why on earth did you not quote one of the two threads with the link to the articles? Then I’d have known which article you were asking about? I’m not a mind reader. Like I have said on multiple occasions now that post of mine which you’ve now helpfully screenshot does not reference either of the articles I later posted links to. So no idea why on earth you quoted it in the first place, nor why you’re screenshotting it now.

@SabrinaThwaite you state You need to understand the rules and conform

Does it say anywhere in the rules for either visa that you need accommodation booked? I don’t believe it does. I mean if they want to make it a rule that’s up to them, but they need to be transparent and consistent. Not let some people in without accommodation and not others.🤷‍♀️

As it stands I’m not sure what rules the two Germans in Hawaii were not conforming with.

God knows why, I've been to the EU multiple times this year (and my passport has plenty of stamps in general) but even on the third trip the DNPAF officer just glanced at my passport and stamped it. No questions about how long I was staying or the purpose of my visit at all.

Mmmm.

I replied to your post about the hiker on a B2 visa. Not in respect of your earlier post about the German girls in Hawaii.

Did the article you posted about the hiker say that their problem was about not having accommodation booked?

They weren't the only ones - not even the only Germans, never mind the British cases I'm now remembering. Canadians and Australians are white and from developed western countries so it's still relevant to talk about them.

There was a big football match on (so extra security), and just the one immigration desk for anyone with a non EU passport. They were being very thorough.

When travelling around Europe I've often booked accommodation only a few days ahead. Freedom is one of the great things about backpacking. I don't fancy risking it with the US at the moment.