Is my best friend racist?

[Newnamefortouchysubject]

Visited my best friend today for lunch and had a conversation that has left me confused, so thought I'd bring it to the MN table.
We were talking about immigration, refugees and asylum seekers.
My friend says the issue is not the colour of people's skin, but rather their culture.
She has no problem with people who wish to settle here when they embrace the UK culture.
Her attitude is that multicultural societies are almost impossible to implement to everyones satisfaction because different cultures have such widely opposing beliefs and values and she believes it is unrealistic to expect to integrate many different cultures and values without considerable conflict between the different cultures.
Furthermore, she believes it is so difficult to integrate different cultures that people of the same ethnicity will inevitably gravitate towards each other and form their own social groups to the exclusion of other ethnic groups, so the whole idea of integration is pointless anyway.
We just end up with lots of different groups of people isolating themselves from other groups who don't share their ethnicity.
She is firmly of the belief that tensions that people describe as racially motivated actually stem from cultural differences, that she knows no one who has any issue with people of different races when they adopt the culture of the country they choose to migrate to, and that the tension is created by ethnic differences and their cultural differences.

I still say this is racism because racism also includes discriminating against people based on their ethnicity. She called me naive if I believe a truly multicultural society is possible when 'you wouldn't even tolerate a friend who has the same ethnicity as you but doesn't share your values so how do you expect to embrace someone's complete different way of life'.
I explained that the way other people choose to live their lives doesn't affect me. She called me naive again at this point and said when people don't have the same values, when they live according to different social rules, it affects people living in their vicinity who don't live like that.

Im not sure whether to raise the subject with her again, or let it lie because she seemed quite adamant and I'm not sure I could make her see this is still racist.

Now I'm wondering if I don't understand what racism is. Maybe I am naive.

Would you care to quote where I ‘openly denied …’
and then I refer you to my point about shutting down debate by accusing everyone of isms, phobias and ists.

Well now it seems that misogyny and violence against women and girls is alive and well amongst right wing groups. Why am I not surprised? https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jul/26/two-in-five-arrested-for-last-summers-uk-riots-had-been-reported-for-domestic-abuse

You edited your post but it’s still there. Then here you are again in reply to me here.

You can repeat yourself as many times you like, we see through you.

So just be clear, your quote to prove I ‘openly denied that British Muslims contribute to the UK society?’ is a quote from someone else?

I refer you to my point about shutting down debate by accusing everyone of isms, phobias and ists.

Ok, let’s flip it round since you don’t even have the courage of your convictions.

Are you now saying that you do agree with Merry that ‘British Muslims are contributing every day: building businesses, serving in the NHS, teaching in schools, leading in politics, and enriching arts, culture, and community life.’?

I can also see that a few specific people are posting repeatedly to change the initial tone of the thread.

It seems mad to me, as there's clearly a growing discontent with immigration levels in the UK and Europe, and trying to shut down discussion or call people racist, Islamophobic etc actually fuels things in the opposite direction. It's probably more effective than door to door campaigning for Reform.

Why can't people see that most fall into a middle ground of not being anti-immigration full stop, but wanting to see some control over who comes, and in what numbers.

It’s a tricky one as they obviously do but what is the net result positive? That’s really the question. Do NHS workers outweigh the misery in Rochdale, Southport etc? Does it outweigh the re introduction of sectarian politics? Of totally divided communities? Girls and women no longer being able to walk down the street? Political violence? I think like anything the answer is nuanced, it’s good the debate is finally out in the open though.

Well put. I think I’m going to stop engaging with them now.

There are 4 millions of Muslims in the UK. To judge them by the 0.0001% of abusers is sly and discriminatory and something you wouldn’t do to any other community.

Southport was the fault of racist white men, so why blame it on Muslims?

The rest of your post just meanders into the same old Islamophobic tropes of women not being able to walk down the street, which is frankly ridiculous.

But thanks for your mealy mouthed platitude that Muslims do contribute, that must have hurt.

Well put. I think I’m going to stop engaging with them now.

I've just seen the most recent reply to your post - it's just deliberately snide and insulting, there's no attempt to actually engage in good faith at all so I don't blame you.

Why do you keep acting like this? We’re discussing multiculturalism, my point is is it a net benefit? My view is, no. Maybe it could have been if we slowed down mass immigration, stopped ghettoisation or were more discerning about who immigrated. Some cultures are just too different and are directly in conflict with western values, I worry for my daughters.

Southport was the fault of racist white men, so why blame it on Muslims?
Racist white men were not behind the Southport attack, you are veering well off into what I will tolerate as acceptable. That is an outright lie and offensive.

Islamaphobic tropes
I refer you to my point about shutting down debate by accusing everyone of isms, phobias and ists.

I’m not going to engage with you any further. Other than being repetitive and constantly attempting to derail a rational discussion, I don’t think you are the slightest bit open or tolerant to other peoples experiences and viewpoints,

Imagine stooping so low as to include the horrific and tragic deaths of three young girls by a severely disturbed individual from a Christian background into an argument regarding Muslim integration and cultural values. Absolutely disgusting.

You cited Southport as one of the reasons why the net benefit of British Muslims to the UK is lessened.

What did Southport have to do with Muslims? And the actions of the racist white men, including riots, destruction of property and attempts to burn refugees, were nothing to do with Muslims.

How can you pretend that you’re open to discussion when you keep making comments like this?

Yep, and he/she has the nerve to ask me why I’m acting this way.

I love going to visit my daughter and her partner who live in Whitechapel. I feel safe there and enjoy the diversity and vibe. @nomas keep strong. x

Thank you @placemats

I'm not going to offer an opinion on the topic, other than your reality will be vastly different. It's very rare to live anywhere in the UK where there's nobody at all from another culture. You must at least have that one Italian or Polish person?

I lived in those almost-fully-white-British picture book, no visible poverty villages most of my 20s and 30s. The people that ran the Chinese restaurant commuted in from elsewhere.

I work in a workplace now that's max 20% white British (professional service but one that requires being multilingual). Live in a city that's very diverse. Also lived in London for a long stretch.

Living in a low to no crime monocultural village is very very different, you won't know what she's talking about. I grew up quite monocultural as a child and had barely met a non-middle-class person before I turned 21. It wasn't a shock-free transition.

There's nothing wrong with your opinion, but it's hard for you to form an informed opinion if you have never truly experienced multiculturalism. Also, multiculturalism hits quite different depending on how wealthy you are. Very wealthy people from all around the world are largely similar, attend same schools/ universities, for example, whereas when you're quite poor, differences can seem more pronounced, starting with not speaking each others' language.

Ah I loved flowery twats. Where comedy existed and people were intelligent enough to understand it, rather than screech racism! Bigotry! Sexism! I’m OFFENDED!!! at any given point.

I agree with your friend entirely.

Hating someone for their skin colour simply because they are a different race is racist and ignorant.

Acknowledging different cultures have areas of incompatibility with our own culture is not.

Agreed 💯

She's not racist at all and she's 100% right.

Agreed

It seems mad to me, as there's clearly a growing discontent with immigration levels in the UK and Europe, and trying to shut down discussion or call people racist, Islamophobic etc actually fuels things in the opposite direction. It's probably more effective than door to door campaigning for Reform.

💯 Reform couldn’t wish for a better ambassador than @nomas Calling everyone racist for daring to question whether other cultures are compatible with British culture drives otherwise thoughtful moderate liberals towards them!

Thoughtful moderate people are too intelligent to have their heads turned by Reform. And Farage knows that.

I only called one poster racist, because s/he used the same old tropes about Muslims being responsible for Southport, that Muslims are not a net benefit to the UK and that because of Muslims, girls and women can’t walk down the street. How has that turned into me calling everyone racist?

If this thread is an example of thoughtful, moderate liberals then I’m quite happy not be associated with you and Farage is welcome to you.

Thankfully most people in the real world are more like @placemats than you.