To think toenail cutting can't hurt my son?

[Hmmmnmmn]

My son is just about to turn 5, has very big reactions to anything regarding his body. He tells me it hurts him when we cut his toenails. Screams and cries out that he hates us when we try to do it.
He has only just stopped crying a couple of months ago from fingernail cutting as he has finally realised that it doesn't hurt. We definitely do not cut them too short, we always make sure there is white visible and after we do cut them we ask if it hurts now and he always says no so it's just during the cutting itself.
I have experienced cutting nails too short and it hurts loads after so I know we are not doing this to him!
YABU - he is sensitive and it clearly causes him unknown pain so the solution is x,y,z?!
YANBU - it can't possibly hurt him if he is fine straight after.

To give you perspective on why I am asking he has always been a huge moaner about everything possible. Only just stopped screaming about hair cuts, he will moan about face washing, refuses to put face under a shower and always says no to blowing bubbles in the swimming pool. Hates taking socks off, was only brave enough to face paint on his 4th birthday, can't wear a jacket without holding his jumper sleeves when he puts jacket on etc, quite particular! He used to violently refuse using the toilet during potty training (would bite and scratch us right up until until he started reception then suddenly stopped when he realised everyone his age had to just get on with it).

Other than things relating to his body he is a wonderful, energetic and funny boy who can be a pleasure to spend time with. We always take a calm approach to him as we worked out that he gets elevated if we don't however we are firm and do persevere and get the job done rather than backing down.
Opinions welcome but please be kind!

For my ASD daughter the 'pain' is how sensitive/tickly her feet are, so it's the holding of the toes and feeling of the nail bed being squeezed that 'hurts'. It's definitely unpleasant for her but until she can cut them herself, it's essential I do it

My son is 6 and has only recently started to allow us to cut his toenails without a fuss. He still hates it though! We always ensure to do his toenails after a longer soak in tbe bath so they are softer to cut.

He probably feels that it hurts him. He just doesn’t like the experience and feels uncomfortable.

I think it’s quite common for children to dislike their nails being cut, their hair cut, water in their face.

Can you get an electric file instead?

He certainly has sensory issues. My DD (who is autistic) was recommended support by an Occupational therapist. I think you can have sensory issues without being ASD but maybe some neuro diversity there??
It's obviously unpleasant for him to have his nails cut.

My autistic son hates having his nails cut, especially toenails. Same as @MuggleMe it's the 'tickly' feeling that is unbearable. He also hates having his hair cut and we often skip a few appointments if he's not feeling up to it.

I remember staying in the bath when my son was about 4 for over 3 hours in a toenail cutting incident, we got there in the end but some children just hate it, he grew out of it , some parenting is hard

Is he using the word “hurt” to mean “feels weird and I don’t like it” rather then actually painful?

keep going as you are. Maybe let him see you do your own toenails so he can see everyone does it. And try out other foot sensations- walking barefoot in sand or thick carpet, squeezing foot, etc.

My DD14 experiences extreme pain when cutting her toenails. I need to give her paracetamol a while beforehand to even get near. I started off thinking like you, that it couldn’t possibly hurt, but it really does. She is autistic and this is the only physical sensory issue she has but it’s a big one.

Do you use clippers or nail scissors? I use scissors on myself because that moment the clipper flattens out the nail before clipping it pulls on the nail bed uncomfortably. To a 5yo I image that could be “hurts”.

It’s common for some children to experience enough of an unpleasant sensation when having hair or nails cut that is distressing for them, even if it isn’t what we understand as pain.

Hair and nails still need to be cut though, so you are right to persevere with kindness and understanding.

I find cutting my toenails a bit painful still and I'm in my 50s! It really used to hurt when I was a child and I'd react like your son when my parents did it. The skin around my toenails is very sensitive to being pulled by scissors/clippers when the nail is cut.

He's clearly a very sensitive child in many ways.
I have an autistic child with sensory issues that is triggered by many of these things.
He finds deep pressure easier than light pressure.
Even into his teens, the daily battle over self care like showering, hair brushing and tooth brushing continues like he's still 3 years old because he still finds them physically unpleasant.

I HATE tickling. I now warn anyone looking like they're in a tickly mood that I accept no responsibility for any losses or damage incurred while trying to tickle me. I have very strong defensive reactions to tickles. Normally it's enough to make them think twice, and if not, the idiot was warned...

Could you file them instead

Cutting nails when they're softer after baths/ swimming is easier.

His reactions sound on the more extreme side, but honestly OP, all the examples you give are things that my DC strongly disliked when they were little. Eldest DS especially hated anything like haircuts, nail cutting, shoe fitting etc. We managed it by avoiding it as much as possible - shoes were essential, but he had long hair and very comfy clothes for years. To be honest I think we just let his nails break off natuatlly, I can't remember cutting any of my DC's toenails since they were newborns.

You say that you always persevere - do you really need to, though?

Approach this rationally. It bothers him, so stop being determined to show him it doesn’t bother him. It does.

Do desensitisation stuff- lots of other touch and feel activities- scrunching toes into carpet as hard as you can. Him brushing his toes with a nail brush. Using a nail file. Walking on wrapping paper/foil etc.

Then let him trim yours.
help him trim his himself. Do a snip/corner every day to keep on top of it rather than doing all ten in one go.

Think about someone turning on a bright light when you’ve been sat in the dark. It doesn’t hurt, but it’s unpleasant.
That’s how it is for your son. His toes have had a very limited range of exposure to touch, and nail cutting is an intense feeling in comparison.

It’s holding the toes that bothered my DD. We used to cut them when she was sleeping to get round this then when she was around 8/9 we let her do them herself, and that was much easier for her. She is 15 now and leaves all her nails quite long before cutting them short as she still doesn’t like it but certainly putting her in control of it helped massively.

Everything you’ve described was the same for my son when he was under 7. He has ASD diagnosis.

I used to do ds's when he was asleep after a bath so they were easier to cut .

My nearly 5 year old is also an arse around getting his toe nails cut. I give him a day's warning and let him choose some "feetie sweeties" to have once they're done.

It's good to hear this is quite common.

My autistic son is like this. See also haircuts, brushing hair, brushing teeth, many clothes.

My almost 4 year old won’t let me near her toenails, she just screams hysterically and it’s horrible. Currently I do them when she’s asleep like a ninja. The light from my phone torch on her feet and that’s the only way we can do it right now. My 2 year old isn’t bothered and lets me do hers!

Be careful about cutting them when kids are sleeping. I tried this with my DD when she was around 7, the pain woke her up and she then struggled with sleep because she was scared I’d do it again. Waking up to someone doing something unpleasant or painful isn’t conducive to peaceful sleep.

I used to be like this! I hated it when my mum cut my toenails. I think it was the gripping of my feet, the slightly odd angle she moved my foot to, so she could cut them easily. Also the ‘fear’ of the scissors.
All in all I hated it. Also my mum told me not to be so silly and was totally unsympathetic 🤣.

When I had to cut my DC toenails I expected the same reaction but they didn’t mind at all.