Unisex toilets in new office - dread going into work

[SocialMol]

The company I work for moved to a new office a few weeks ago. It is brand new and shared 50/50 with another company. We have our own side of the floor, key card protected so completely separate.

However, the toilets are in the middle of the block so are shared with the other company. These are unisex - several cubicles with shared area for sinks/dryers etc.

The other company is a sales one (they run a call centre there) and the demographic of their workforce is mainly young men in their 20’s.

There have been several instances of inappropriate comments made to staff in the toilets. Crass stuff like ‘give that cubicle 5 minutes’ to cruder comments directed at or about women - the men will often be talking about their own colleagues in a derogatory way in front of us.

The final straw for me was this afternoon when I walked out of a cubicle and a spotty young lad said he will ‘join me next time’ 😷

Our company are aware of our concerns but said there’s nothing they can do, as the toilets are designed to be ‘inclusive’ and similar to the other modern office blocks they viewed.

I don’t really know what I’m looking for by posting this to be honest, just wanted to know if anyone else finds this sort of set up completely ridiculous?

There's always one, isn't there? If you are happy to go back to the days of "whole streets sharing outside loos" then good for you. However, l would imagine that some of the same problems the OP is encountering were prevalent then. Also, some people are cleaner than others, both then and now. I would not be at all happy with this situation @SocialMol. Toilets should be private places without the worry of harassment. Why is it always women who are expected to put up and shut up? We read about these issues in connection with unosex toilets at school - thankfully, single sex toliets will no longer be tolerated - and these young men appear to have not grown up at all since their school days. I would keep a record of every incident. This situation is completely unacceptable and needs to be changed.

Yes this is what it is - cubicles are floor to ceiling and then you exit to the sinks in the shared area.

This doesn't negate the fact you're entitled to work in a workplace where you are free of sexual harassment and the risk of assault.

I'd say the risk of assault is pretty high given the comments made to you.

Apply for flexible working under the flexible working request and request to work at home full time.

Make a diary of comments made, when they've been made, who made them even as just descriptors if nothing else.

Your company can't force the other company to fire or investigate someone else for their behaviour so on a balance of risk assessment and need you will have substantial evidence in your favour.

Of course your company will try and say it isn't workable and give you guff, but unless it genuinely can't work with business needs then they can't lawfully deny you this request.

If you're not in a union, join one.

There is a cohort of people obsessed with men being permitted to share toilets with women. They are on every thread about toilets to argue for this. The desperation to convince others it should be allowed is palpable. No doubt they have their reasons.

We wouldn’t encounter them if they had their own loos.

Sadly, many unions refuse to represent or advocate for women who want single sex spaces.

The Free Speech Union may be able to advise.

Actually the ‘it won’t kill you’ is not technically correct. People are more likely to be saved in the event of a medical emergency in the right design of single sex toilet.

If there’s any ambiguity and always in unisex, toilet cubicles/rooms become completely private.

Most places like schools and council offices have defibrillators but you have to know someone has collapsed in order to help them.
Toilets are the place people rush to when they feel ill. The process of elimination can put strain on the body which leads to a medical emergency. People have been left for days in toilets that are private.

Thats why we need single sex toilets. They’re the only ones regulated to have door gaps. They prevent ‘wilful misbehaviour’ and allow some supervision to keep people safe.

Sadly I am all too familiar with the single sex lack of support from unions, but they may be able to advocate against sexual harassment and objection handle against their fluffy reasons for their 60% office attendance if it is the only way to keep OP safe.

Sorry if everyone has said this but your employer has a duty to protect you from sexual harassment and if you have informed them they are not complying wiht this duty. I've just got this from Google because I'm in a rush but you should do a bit more research and write to HR quoting the act and noting their vicarious liability.

Edited to add: the new requirement in the Amendment to proactively anticipate the potential risks and taking measures to mitigate them should also be noted. These duties are in addition to their duty to take action to prevent further instances of sexual harrassment once it has been reported, which it has.

"Employers now have a legal duty to take reasonable steps to prevent sexual harassment in the workplace. This duty, outlined in the Worker Protection (Amendment of Equality Act 2010) Act 2023, came into effect on October 26, 2024. Employers must proactively identify potential risks of sexual harassment and implement measures to mitigate them. This includes developing and enforcing anti-harassment policies, providing training, and establishing clear reporting and investigation procedures.

Key aspects of the employer's duty:
Proactive prevention:
Employers are expected to anticipate potential risks of sexual harassment and take steps to prevent it from happening in the first place. This is a shift from a reactive approach to one where employers are expected to be proactive.

Reasonable steps:
The law doesn't specify exactly what these steps are, but they should be reasonable in the context of the specific workplace and the nature of the work.

Duty of care:
Employers have a general duty of care to protect the wellbeing of their employees, which includes taking steps to prevent sexual harassment.

Vicarious liability:
Employers can be held responsible for the actions of their employees, even if they were not directly involved in the harassment.

Consequences of breach:
While there isn't a free-standing claim for breach of the preventive duty, an employer's failure to take reasonable steps can lead to an increased compensation award if an employee wins a sexual harassment claim in an employment tribunal. The Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) can also take enforcement action against employers who fail to comply with the duty."

I believe as long as the toilets themselves are in cubicles floor to ceiling, then that is not breaking any laws. The wash basins don’t have to be in the cubicle themselves. This is how to loo set ups are at my work. Is there not a disabled toilet you can use?

Yes. It amazes me how some people can’t understand this.

From your comments, the specific toilet string gives them the opportunity to make toilet related comments that they might be unlikely to make elsewhere as it just wouldn’t make sense.

Stopping men having access to spaces where women need privacy actually physically prevents a whole host of unwanted behaviours.

See swimming pool changing rooms for example. The number of sexual assaults/voyeurism in the mixed sex changing villages is far higher than in the single sex changing rooms. Give a man the opportunity and he will often take it.

No. A cubicle is not a room.

Let's not. Disabled toilets are already highly limited and are for those with accessibility needs.

The OP shouldn't be using the accessible toilets, making them less accessible to those who need them so then her employer is let off the hook for their legal duty to prevent sexual harassment in the workplace.

Absolute bobbins that your management can't do anything. I won't comment on the legal ins and outs but at the very least one of your managers needs to have a word with one of their managers and explain that their behaviour is unacceptable and that you'll be taking it up with the building management company if it doesn't improve.

oh and although you have spoken to your managers already you need to be clear that this is a SEXUAL HARRASSMENT issue not a same sex toilets issue per se. I'm sure it's totally doable to have a similar toilet set up and for everything to be absolutely fine.

Sorry if that sounded abrupt @Clockworkchocolateorange - I was rushing.

I can’t find all the relevant stuff now but despite the fevered imaginations wishes of the money geabbers developers, a cubicle is a cubicle and there is nothing in the regs that says a room can also be a cubicle.

This was fully accepted and widely known until about 5 minutes ago when, driven by the trans lobby demanding for men to access women’s spaces, the solution to solve all was to pretend that cubicles are rooms to get around the regs and make them unisex. Why v obviously doesn’t satisfy the trans lobby because men actually want women’s spaces, not unisex spaces.

This sounds less like a unisex toilets issue and more like an issue with the men who work at the other company – I would be keeping a record of every inappropriate comment made and emailing their HR department each and every time. They sound awful.

You believe wrongly.

Women get same sex washing areas as well or an individual wash area which has a lockable door

Washing facilities
21.—(1) Suitable and sufficient washing facilities, including showers if required by the nature of the work or for health reasons, shall be provided at readily accessible places.

(2) Without prejudice to the generality of paragraph (1), washing facilities shall not be suitable unless—
(a)they are provided in the immediate vicinity of every sanitary convenience, whether or not provided elsewhere as well;
(b)they are provided in the vicinity of any changing rooms required by these Regulations, whether or not provided elsewhere as well;
(c)they include a supply of clean hot and cold, or warm, water (which shall be running water so far as is practicable);
(d)they include soap or other suitable means of cleaning;
(e)they include towels or other suitable means of drying;
(f)the rooms containing them are sufficiently ventilated and lit;
(g)they and the rooms containing them are kept in a clean and orderly condition;

and
(h)separate facilities are provided for men and women, except where and so far as they are provided in a room the door of which is capable of being secured from inside and the facilities in each such room are intended to be used by only one person at a time.

[(Edit to remove odd format)]

I get it, but it doesn't bother me overall. I think all the talk of the rare occasion some trans person might use the toilet has led to unisex toilets which in my opinion are always filthy and far, far worse.

Part of the issue is that men and women in general as well as OP want privacy from the opposite sex.

Why should OP have to coach men on how to behave appropriately when faced with women in the toilets? Why not just have single sex toilets like we’ve always had?

My dh is a very nice man but would feel extremely uncomfortable with a woman in the toilets. My fil would likely have another heart attack - he has very proper manners.

Although I've never bought the argument that "most rapes are by someone known to the woman so we can stop worrying about stranger rapes", if the worst did happen and someone is assaulted in a workplace unisex toilet, it probably wouldn't be classed as a stranger rape anyway - it would be rape by a work colleague. So - YAY - it would seem that, in fact, we are permitted to try to mitigate workplace toilet rapes.

😁
I would love to stop talking about toilets! But since I have experience of saving a young women’s life (nightclub, choked on her own vomit) due to seeing her blue hand on the floor of her closed cubicle because of the door gap, I started researching why the door gaps were disappearing in design several years ago. Particularly in schools (I am an ex-teacher) because I saw the reports on assaults in school toilets. Then I saw the stats for 1 rape per school day inside school premises and wanted to know where this could be. No one could tell me but it appears to be store cupboards and toilets that were private.

Through talking to government depts, there is no oversight on assaults and deaths in toilets outside the home so I have collated a lot of information. I have enough for a book!

Since the Supreme Court ruling I thought it would calm down but it’s ramped up. Everyone has an opinion about design without analysing what goes on in them.

When people say unisex are ok because they are ‘lockable’ toilets it creates a false sense of security - I know they aren’t lockable in the sense people think secure. It’s difficult because I want to raise awareness but not to the ‘wrong’ people. However, it is already being abused so I feel I should speak up to inform people what I have found.

These are not ‘unisex’ toilets - which must be fully enclosed with sink. So you work place does not comply with the law.

Your company is also exposing you to sexual harassment. Submit a complaint.

My workplace is not set up the way OP describes (although I’ve been a recent visitor to client offices that have been), in that it has theoretically separate-sex loos - cubicles inside, with the hand basins in a public area (plus a set of urinals in the ‘men’s.’)

On paper, they’re compliant. In reality the company is very “use the facilities you’re comfortable with” - so not compliant at all.

The regs are great, if there’s anyone actually enforcing them and/or prepared to stick their head above the parapet and complain.

I am beginning to go with option 2 more ofteh than option 1.
Eg there is poster on another thread saying that OP should in an communal mixed sex mixed age swimming pool shower stick her hand under her swim wear and rub it around her genitals 🤳 😬