To think Richard III blatantly killed the Princes in Tower?

[HenryTudor1485]

He’s undergone a bit of a reappraisal recently but I’m not having it. He was a wrong un.

He clearly had his nephews killed. He had motive, means and opportunity. The dates when they “disappeared” all add up.

He done the crime. He never did the time (unless you consider being defeated in battle and being hacked to death “time”).

My personal opinion is that it was Henry V11 who was responsible for the Princes being murdered.

Have you ever read Josephine Tey's book The Daughter of Time? It's a fiction book where a recuperating policeman investigates the murders in the tower. Many years since I read it but it's very interesting and uses historical evidence.

Team Richard here.

Is there a true crime podcast about this? If not, there should be.

I read The Daughter of Time a few years ago. I actually think Henry VII makes a lot of sense.

I come to mumsnet for this incisive analysis of current affairs

Wasn't there talk of having the bones DNA tested? The Queen wouldn't allow it but I've hoped Charles might.

Either way, we've got a lovely tourist attraction dedicated to him in my city now.

You're about 500 years too late 😆

I've always thought some lacky did it thinking it would curry favourite with Richard but that Richard was horrified rather than happy, not because he particularly cared but because the boys death put him in a tight spot.

I thought that theory that is outlined in The Daughter of Time was widely negged by historians of the period? And the Richard III theory not proven, obviously, but again widely accepted as the most probable.
All historical judgement is guesswork, of course, but I think the Henry VII one probably is a bit of wishful thinking. Because I'd much rather it was him.

It’s a shame Crimewatch is no longer a thing. A would’ve liked to see a reconstruction.

The suspect is a white male, aged between 500 and 600, wearing a suit of armour. Does not have a horse.

I think its a fascinating subject .
I studied the Tuders for O level history many moons ago and we spent time discussing the Princes in the tower - it was our history teacher who recommended we read the Josephine Tey book.
I was always quite an admirer of Henry V11 and the pragmatic way he set about securing power for his dynasty.
So whereas murdering the Princes was a pretty callous unpleasant act it certainly fitted in with his modus operandi.

100% agree with you, OP. I started an almost identical thread on here several years ago.

It is so clear that he killed them. Those who say it was Henry VII, how would he have got to the boys and why didn’t Richard mention that an enemy faction had killed them?

How would he have accessed them?

I always thought most likely Henry VII. And that he smeared Richards’s name.

Another operator. Margaret Beaufort. Formidable woman. Could easily believe she’d give orders for the boy’s deaths.

Yes, I’ve always assumed it was kind of a Becket-like situation

No lackey would murder the King/the King’s nephews without orders to do so.

Umm...I have no idea.

Doubt it will ever be 'proved'. Bloodthirsty lot, weren't they.

I'm assuming a 'humm it would be so much easier if the boys weren't around, I'd be King in my own right and could do XYZ' has been interpreted as 'who will rid me off these troublesome nephews' when it wasn't intended that way, but short of a time machine we'll never know.

Where's that lady who was R3s biggest fan 🥰🤗 and found his body. If anyone can prove his innocence, it's her.

🙄😀🫢🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Overall I think you're correct, but what I love most is how you're suddenly resolved to set things to rights 😂

You would say that, wouldn't you? 😁

They might have died of natural causes (or been helped to die of natural causes - shit food, cold draughty rooms, and lack of medical attention, etc). But they clearly died during Richard’s reign.

How could he have accessed the boys?