To this is absolutely insane! Universal Credit Sanction

[ThisIsInsane]

Adult DD has had an absolute nightmare trying to get a job since she was fired just before Christmas,

She wasn’t happy in the role previous to that so applied for another, got it, gave her resignation. Three days into the new role, she was told, she wasn’t a good fit and immediately fired. She did absolutely nothing wrong btw.

This has massively affected her mental health. She’s never been fired before or been unemployed.

She has literally applied for over 1500 jobs since then, only got two interviews which she wasn’t successful at.

She missed a UC appointment in June. Not sure what exactly happened but she has evidence of her job search. At every appointment they tell her she’s applying for a lot of jobs and there’s noting they can do to help.

They have sanctioned her UC so she has only got £7!

According to the letter she has been sanctioned for 30 days for a first offence of missing one appointment after 6 months in which they have not helped her find a job!

She has an appointment later today and I’m planning to go with her to complain as she isn’t in the right head space to. I just think it’s totally disgusting! She lives at home luckily but can’t pay her phone bill even!

Imagine if she was living on her own and had no support!

AIBU to think this is extreme and unjustifiable punishment?

Don't go in there with an attitude complaining, you will make things much much worse for her. Be placatory and charming, actually advocate for her, pleasantly and in a calm and respectful fashion.

She has to abide by the rules whether you feel they are helping her or not, if she wants the money. Apologise for missing the appointment, assure them it will never happen again. Don't try to coerce, force or push anyone into anything. It will not work.

THEY have the power, you have none. No matter how you feel, you only have the rights you can enforce and if you start an argument with them you are harming her and they can run circles around her for months.

She'd be better going on her own without her mother, and just apologising for her oversight and asking them to help her.

She missed the appointment, so was sanctioned. It doesn’t really matter what your opinion is of the value of the appointments, she’s expected to attend them. If she wanted to complain about that, she should have still attended and raised it 🤷‍♀️

Why did she miss the appointment?

Did she call to rebook or explain or just expect it to blow over?

Your DD needs to take responsibility whatever you think of the actual appointment itself.

The first sanction is not usually 30 days - it’s usually 48 hours plus whatever time it is until you go to the missed appointment.

Is this her next appointment? If so, that’ll be why. She needed to rebook for the next day, or as soon as possible.

She’s supposed to treat this like a job, and she’s agreed to do so in her commitments.

Make sure there’s ground for complaints before you do so, you don’t want to make it harder for her.

I suppose it’s a condition she agreed to? So I’m not sure you can complain about it although I understand you’re annoyed for her. I would encourage her to take responsibility though and not go in with her complaining for her - I don’t think it’ll help her case

That sounds absolutely horrible. Is she definitely well enough to do this much work searching? She can get a sick note from her GP and then the UC do have to lay off you for that period.

It's bang out of order but they won't do anything different. They'll just offer her some kind of crisis loan that also gets taken off her payments.

But there's nothing you can do sadly. I hope she finds work soon.

i am not denying she is at fault for not attending the appointment! Her mental health is shot and she is struggling to get up so spends most of the day in bed. Sleeping for 14-16 hours of the day.

The point I made about the appointment not being helpful was about even the job centre are saying they don’t know what happening with jobs at the moment.

Is sanctioning her so she hasn’t got enough even for basic living requirements, for ONE missed appointment, not extreme though?

£7 for a whole month.

That is the point of this thread.

i mean, i dont know what the circumstances are of universal credit - but perhaps there is a standard set of rules, and if she missed one, then the rule is she gets less - if those are the rules then unfortunately she missed one - seems harsh but rules, are rules. They cant bend one set of rues for one person etc etc. Hope your daughter feels better soon.

Did the contract with the new employer day anything about a notice period?
Do you know anyone who would say she was attending an interview with them at the time her job appointment was scheduled, so she can appeal

If she's applied to more than 1000 jobs and only got 2 interviews, something is very wrong. Clearly she's in an area where there are plenty of jobs. Why isn't she getting interviews.

Sleeping all day is the worse thing she can do. It's really really hard mentally to cope with unemployment. So many young people struggle, but only she can make it happen. She needs to do it, there is no way about it.

First step, understand why she isn't getting any interviews.

It’s nice of you to be supporting her, but kicking off about it will do her no favours - nor in the long run will you going with her. It’s always ridiculously cringey when a parent shows up with their adult child to defend them (unless of course, there are considerable additional needs). She needs to learn how to stand on her feet, apologise for missing the appointment, and respectfully explain her situation.

And - the crucial bit - she has to attend all appointments from now on. You wouldn’t miss work without a good reason, nor can you miss an appointment. I’m assuming she didn’t let them know prior, and just didn’t show up? You’d get fired for that at work in some places, so yes I think it’s justified. If her mental health is so bad she can’t manage her appointments, that’s a different Avenue to go down I think.

I guess they assume she has saved some money from when she was working.
If she is in bed all that time is she spending the time applying for jobs?
Can she just apply for temp jobs/something lower paid so she can get back in routine?

Its awful how the job treated her but unless she did something severe its very likely more about the company than her. So just very bad luck.

She missed an appointment.

If she wants the money she has to play by their rules, which means not missing appointments.

Be very careful at the job centre. The staff are very prickly and will accuse you of abusive language at the drop of a hat.

Go with the “can you explain/is there anything my daughter can do” approach rather than anything accusatory.

Are you sure she has applied for 1500 jobs in 6 months thats 250 jobs a month thats a lot of jobs in your area.

Problem is that how can you administer the whole system if people can just not show up for appointments without any repercussions? Fair enough, perhaps your daughter has a genuine reason (which they haven’t been made aware of?), but if there were no sanctions then how many people do you think would take the piss? It sounds like this is not just one sanction but two, one for missing an appointment and then one for not arranging another quickly?

The government website says for the ‘lower level’ sanctions bit: ‘These sanctions last from the date of the appointment until the day before you contact us to arrange a new one.’ So I’m guessing she didn’t contact them for a month or what? If she did contact them immediately then I agree the penalty seems harsh.

But if you’re on UC and not working I imagine it’s assumed you have ample time to arrange and attend an interview to continue getting your money. If her health is preventing her, then she needs to see a GP and explore disability/unfit to work options instead.

I would also ask at her UC appointment for some help with her application and interview technique if she has genuinely got only two interviews from 1500 applications. Have there really been 1500 feasible jobs for her in your area in 6 months? That seems a phenomenal amount.

Hi op, I claim a small amount of UC so have some experience of the system. This is standard procedure unfortunately. She will have ticked a box to agree to commitments - which include attending all appointments - when she signed up. Not attending an appointment will result in a sanction, this is one of the rules which she will have had to agree to.

@thelakeislehas given some good advice as to handle the situation.

Plenty of people (I’m not saying this is you) believe (consciously or subconsciously) that the welfare state is overly generous. Often it is not until they gain some first hand experience of it that they realise this is not the case.

All the best to your DD, it’s horrible being unemployed. I hope she manages to find a job soon.

1500 job applications since Christmas is insane. Am I wrong that that’s over 200 a month (250?) and 8ish a day seven days a week?!

She can’t be tailoring her application each time.

I’d suggest she does far fewer but puts a lot more time/effort into each one. One or two a week with lots of care over it/them.

She wouldn't have lost a whole month's money for one missed appointment unless, as well as missing it, she didn't then contact them quickly to rebook. The responsibility is hers to do this same as if I didn't show up at work and didn't make contact, there would be repercussions. This is what she agreed in her commitments in order to receive benefit.

She needs to discuss with her coach what help she needs as she is the one doing the work searching for 99.9 percent of the time. If she is applying for that many roles and not getting interviews, looking at her application process is a good place to start.

A sanction for missing an appointment is 7 days, plus however many days she took to get back in touch with the jobcentre. When she missed the appointment she’ll have been asked for her reason in her journal. I’m guessing she didn’t give a reason and got in touch after 23 days once the sanction was applied. Unfortunately missing appointments without good reason is sanctionable. She mustn’t have given a reason when they asked. Although the jobcentre can support with job search and training the onus is on the job seeker to ensure they are doing their job search. A lot of the appointments will just be the Jobcentre checking she has done her job search.

This is the thread that people need to be pointed in the direction of when they keep posting crap nonsense about how loads of people are on benefits because they can’t be bothered to work.

I, and others repeatedly say how harsh the system is and how claimants have to show they are looking for work to claim. Any excuse to cut you off and they do as this post shows….

Definitely go with her to the appointment. Complaining probably won’t do much but that’s because the system is set up in a certain way with punitive measures.

She should appeal the sanction - the majority are overturned on appeal. It'll take time though.

Focus energy on helping her do that kicking off won't help.

"Imagine if she was living on her own and had no support!" Like many that are sanctioned

So hiw are they expecting her to gey to job interviews with no money.

Anyway regarding mental health if she sleeping that much maybe there is something going on for her can you encourage her to call the GP? She may need some support meantally. Maybe she isn't in the right place at the moment. She may be able to get a sick note from gp to tide her over and possibly back dated to over ride the sanction. People wwith epression/mental health cant always do things when they should because it feels to much.

A universal credit meeting is seen the same as going to work you cant just not turn up. If you dont turn up to work you lose pay and get in trouble if you dont turn up to a universal credit meeting you lose money and get in trouble.

This doesn't add up. Nobody gets a 30-day sanction for their first breach.