Ex wants to get 7y/o phone to cut me out of contact

[Twentyoneagainx]

Hi,
My ex has been back in our child's life for 9 months, after 4 years no contact. All was ok in the beginning. Not a comfortable situation for me, as ex was very abusive during the relationship however, I pushed through for sake of our child.
Said child, 7, thinks their dad is amazing and is very keen to see them as much as possible. Currently sees them one day a week every fortnight. Ex has been offered more contact, but says they have work commitments. Child has asked to sleep overnight but nothing ever materialises.

Ex introduced girlfriend to child two months ago, despite myself and child stating this is too soon. She now comes with him on every pick up and drop off. I smile and am approachable, but she always greets us with a blank expression. Personally, I'd rather get along and remain polite for my child's comfort.

Ex used to take child out and do things with them until girlfriend was introduced however, now they go to grandparents or they are sent upstairs to play with her children, who are much older. We would occasionally message regarding child, and replies would always take days until he was back in work and I'd get a response.
He recently asked for my phone number, as I'd questioned why he was changing dates of contact frequently. I know from previous experience, that this call would have probably involved him screaming and then twisting my words. I declined and said I was happy to keep all conversations via messages.
He now refuses to respond to absolutely any message I send, has began being early and late picking child up from chosen location and has told child that he will be buying them a phone, so he can message them regarding contact.
It was going so well and I can't decide really who the problem is. I can't decide if it is her encouraging him to freeze me out, or if it is him reverting back to controlling behaviour. However, I do feel a child who is 7, 8 next month, is too young to have to deal with the tooing and frowing of arrangements of their own contact. Am I being unreasonable?

YANBU at all. How early or late he is to the pick ups?

Does your child enjoying seeing his dad?

You can refuse to hand over dc to him if he won’t stick to agreed timings.

I would have thought seven was too young for their own phone - apart from all the other considerations. Any contact with the child should go via you via message.

My ex has said the same about a phone for our 6 year old. I simply put that in my home our child would not be having access to a phone. My home, my rules. And for contact, thet need to go through the parent. That is an adult issue, not a child one. You will need to put boundaries in, child focused ones, you are completely right here.

Also if he is more than 15mins late I would be leaving the location with your child. Document everytbing, start now, because this will only increase as time goes on and the evidence will show a pattern of behaviour.

As said in post, child thinks dad is great. Think the novelty is still attached and I wouldn't attempt to discolour their view.

He was 15 minutes early collecting last time and 20 minutes late dropping off.

The time has expanded from three hours to sometimes longer however, he often uses the excuse of he has to travel to work, so has to cut time short. However, it's now becoming clear he's just taking the mick and has other things to get on with.

Our l/o has asked repeatedly to stay overnight, but he never puts a date in. Just says you can stay whenever you want, yet then says he needs to drop off at earlier times to travel for work.

He’s being controlling

if he is late - how long do you wait before leaving?

if he wants to get dc a phone fine, but it’s a big responsibility for dc and totally unfair on child to be expected to arrange

id sort of suggest whatever you do is going to be wrong, you’re on a hissing to nothing

does ex come to your house to pick up? If not how is he expecting the child to get to location?

YANBU and I simply wouldn't allow it.

If he buys her a phone hand it back. If he doesn't want to take it, put it in a drawer. Don't get into any arguments and try to stay calm (grey rock).

It sounds like the first flush of fatherhood has worn off and thats why the days out have stopped. I also wouldn't be surprised if he has painted you as the devil with his new girlfriend which is why she is so cold towards you.

You're right to keep everything in writing. There are also apps that can record your calls if necessary.

@VexedofVirginiaWater I don't agree with young kids having contactable phones at this age, even if they are 8 next month. Still too young.
@BookArt55 I feel once I put a boundary in or became assertive if you like, this has wound him up. He never liked me being assertive when we were together. I try and keep everything child focused, even when he was asking personal questions about me to our L/o, I contacted him and said I'm always happy to answer questions that are relevant to child however, not about myself.

I think just be clear that if he wants to buy a phone for your DC then it will be left at his house, and that in any event contact will still need to be arranged via you.

Also agree with nipping this being late in the bud, if he’s late picking up go out and don’t come back or respond to messages, if he’s late bringing back make a note of it and/ or make yourself scarce so he has to wait around causing him inconvenience. Even better could you change contact so he has to bring back to school?

Do you have a court order- if this doesn’t improve I’d be getting an order in place.

@MikeRafone he arrives early to collect and late to drop off. I won't allow him to come to our property, and this, I think, is also part of the problem.

I don't think our child should be responsible or have to hold the weight of arranging contact.

Why don’t you arrange in future that he’ll pick up from the local Costa/ Asda etc and only get there 5 mins before pickup time? That way he’ll just be inconveniencing himself if he turns up early. Go out somewhere with your DD beforehand so if he comes to the house there’s no one in. Drop off is more difficult but definitely keep a record of it.

@InBedBy10 thank you, I wasn't aware of the app. I will keep that in mind. Yes, he would have 100% painted me as the devil, he's good at this. Doesn't bother me one bit though. In fact, I think that infuriates him even more.
@Heronwatcher he can't drop off at school because he won't have child overnight.
I do keep everything in message, and so there is evidence of him contacting me at the times of drop off saying he's only just leaving, then obviously arriving late.
I will state phone is to be left at dads house, thank you for that.

YANBU. He is trying to control the situation. It is not appropriate for your child to be managing their contact arrangements, you are the adults. You let him know calmly that if he gets phone for your child that they will not be using this it is not appropriate he is welcome to provide it but it will be turned off in a drawer, up to him. Get a cheap Nokia brick or similar and advise of the set times you will be checking this and times otherwise that it will be switched off - have a completely separate number so he doesn’t have access to your personal number. If he needs to communicate with you he uses this only using any other number will be considered harassment by yourself and you will get take the appropriate action accordingly. There is no need for him to have your personal number. He has a means of contacting you in emergency for instance whilst your child is with him if needed but you don’t have his presence constantly when your child is with you. This phone is for contact purposes only. And stick to your boundaries with it.
Regarding drop off / pick up - completely okay to arrange an alternative place for handover he does not need to come to your home and safe space. You arrive for the time that you agree so if he is early that is only his own time hanging around.

@Heronwatcher thats exactly what's already in place. I will never allow him to come to our home, despite him asking many times to collect or pick up from ours. I always keep it in a public setting.

@rainbowsparkle28 he will never be given my contact number. We go through messenger and I will always stick to that. I've experienced too much of his behaviour to do anything otherwise.
I think I will insist phone stays in dads. Sad how he hasn't grown and developed in the years we've been separated. All because he was pulled up about constantly changing contact days. There was always a punishment when we were together.

I'd refuse point blank to entertain a phone for a 7/8 yr old. If necessary posting it to him via a locker service if "forgotten" or simply confiscating it and switching it off [away from the home] so it can't be tracked.

Late for pick up, I'd give him 15 mins at most and then go about your day. Disappointing for your son but I wouldn't let him mess you around for hours on end.

Late to drop back. Find a location 10 mins walk away so he has to give you 15 mins advance notice or he can wait 10 mins every time.

Thankfully it's one day a fortnight. He sounds like an epic dick.

@TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams no doubt he would "forget" to make sure it's left at his, as he absolutely would try to track it. This was a thing when we were together, along with locking me in the house.

He's never late picking him up, he's started arriving early. This is to make it look like he's been kept waiting. All very manipulative.

Personally I would buy a cheap second pay as you go phone and give him that number. That way he can contact you but you can also keep any messages or record any calls and it’s all seperate to your normal phone

@Vaxtable I keep contact via messenger.

Whilst I would not want a 7 year old to have a phone, it’s perfectly reasonable for their father to want a telephone number to call the child on. A separate cheap phone is the answer that he can call on

@mamagogo1 he can always call on messenger. He doesn't need a separate phone for that. He has been told repeatedly, he can see our child as much as he likes, as well call them via messenger. He never bothers. He never responded to his voicenote he had on Father's Day. Took him 4 days to open it.

Irritating but he'll get bored of it eventually especially if you can maintain a completely unbothered facade. A spot of chilly wet weather will probably curb that pretty quickly. At least unlike another poster he's not sitting outside your house playing loud music and running the engine.

Other ways and means to track your child than a phone. Presume you are checking him over carefully. Have you got a court order in place - if so I'd amend it to ensure it's clear on electronic tracking and phones. That way if he ever breaches it, you can go straight back to the court.

@TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams No court order, as yet. I don't think this is something he would ever pay towards.

No, he used to stalk me years ago. In the end I had to move house. I would never let that happen again. I'd wake up to door handles being tried, muddy footprints over my garden gate, our dog would go crazy at the living room windows etc. We've seen it all.

I was very hopeful that things had changed. However, recent behaviour and attitudes prove otherwise.

If he doesn't have an address he may be insisting on phone so that he can pre-install a tracker to get your address & know where you & your child are at all times.

If he won't keep the phone then ensure that you turn it off as soon as it is in your control & keep it in a signal blocking bag like this

www.amazon.co.uk/Defender-Signal-Blocking-Pouch-RFID-black/dp/B07B3R5FLG/ref=asc_df_B07B3R5FLG?mcid=1c12e9d063803caa94efd3bd14b0c190&hvocijid=11194104760497351783-B07B3R5FLG-&hvexpln=74&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=696285193871&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11194104760497351783&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9197106&hvtargid=pla-2281435177618&psc=1&gad_source=1

I would do this too - no different to
messenger really if that number is used just for him.