Summer holidays should be longer

[noblegiraffe]

Our kids have the shortest summer holidays in Europe, Italy have 13 weeks, even Ireland has 9.

They're under pressure so much at school they need more time to just be kids. Classrooms are so hot in the last few weeks of term that it's impossible to learn effectively anyway.

I think we should add at least an extra two weeks to the summer holidays, so break up near the start of July. This would bring us more into line with private schools too.

And with longer holidays it might help recruit and retain teachers, and reduce competition for summer annual leave slots for working parents. It could even reduce the cost of holidays as 'peak season' would be longer.

Private schools give an extra week at October half term - which works well and some state schools are following suit on - and also finish a week before Christmas. Of course it's magical! Who wouldn't want their kids off before Christmas?!

I definitely prefer the longer school days and shorter terms of private schol.

Having red lots of Margaret Atwood books I was under the impression that most kids in Canada went to summer camps n the summer - often by the lakes?

As a student at Uni we were visited by Camp Canada looking for international recruits to staff their summer camps. I thought this was a big part of Canadian culture?

Parents who work full time wouldn’t be able to cover this?

It would literally be profiteering for holiday clubs

"Legally prividing a service which people want at a price which leads to a normal level of profit" isn't what profiteering means.

Nothing suits everyone, but longer days are better for full time working parents. It's the lack of availability of wrap-around care at many state schools which is the real killer for working parents.

DH and I both work full time, as do many parents with children at private school.

We get about a week more holiday overall in Finland (plus more bank holidays) and shorter school days (some can be only 3 hours long!) as they average the days out over the week for 20 hours in the first years of primary up to 25 in the later years, then 30 hours in upper school (minimum, local curriculums can add more hours for various things, like DS's primary school is adding extra for social/emotional education)

Its the people whose children have already grown up who take the long holidays in my workplace! Which of course they are entirely entitled to (but most of the managers/foremen going on a month's holiday at the same time isn't great)

But you saying you want the schools closed when it's too hot and that could include June and could include September. If you want the kids off school in high temperatures, you are talking about months and so it doesn't really work to cite that as a reason.

The problem is a lot of parents don't deal with their kids, last Christmas in our area which is a nice area, we had no end of cases of ferals vandalising people's garden decorations, stealing Xmas inflatables altogether or leaving them ripped and broken and little kids in tears! The more holidays there are the more people now have to tolerate crap behaviour from people's kids. Kids creeping around on other people's properties late at night and terrorising pensioners because it's the holidays and too many parents don't care where their 12 year old is at 10.30pm!

When I was a child that was how our holidays worked, I think it is the same as Scottish school holidays.

It actually worked really well because in June everyone in the school was taking an exam of some sort.

I know this would cost but I think children over 10 should be entitled to a holiday each year. I know many many families have holidays but the cost is prohibitive for some parents.

I think when parents can't provide then the state should provide a week or two somewhere, it doesn't need to be fancy, a youth hostel and some activities.

I think when parents can't provide then the state should provide a week or two somewhere, it doesn't need to be fancy, a youth hostel and some activities.

O.M.G. Is there any limit to what you want the state - ie taxpayers - to pay for?!

Any limit at all to how much time you expect people to work without pay for (which is what tax is) in order to give strangers - for free - absolutely everything they are working to earn for themselves?

My colleague has a child in Private School (day only not boarding) and childcare is an absolute nightmare for her!

She has to ask her Parents to stay with her when her child breaks up from school in the summer holidays to look after him while she and her husband both work.

£250 per week per child for a holiday club, is expensive for people who are financially just about managing, especially when they have two £500 per week or three children £750 per week to go to work.

My daughter’s state school offers wrap around care from 7:30 until 18:00 for working parents.
I live in an area that is seen as affluent, but the increase in interest rates on Mortgages after the disastrous but thankfully short lived reign of Liz Truss and inflation of food and increased utility bills are clearly impacting families in my area too!

That's not what I said.

My daughter’s state school offers wrap around care from 7:30 until 18:00 for working parents.

Lucky you. You must know that's unusual.

Is it free and available to all children who want it? Even more unusual.

You keep doing that though, you complained about Italy having 13 weeks and then back peddled and then you said schools are too hot for kids in the summer and they should be at home and now you are in denial again. You can't pretend you didn't want these things everytime you are told about the impracticalities of these things!

It's not that unusual.

Most state primaries have wraparound care.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/289m-wraparound-childcare-scheme-what-schools-need-to-know/

Our state primary offers 7:30-6:30 and it's not unusual in this area

Did you even read the OP?

Sounds like a great initiative. Well done Conservatives. Hope Labour don't pull it.

It unfortunately didn’t exist a few years ago when I needed it, and the state schools told me that I could apply for wrap around when DD started, and if I was lucky I'd get one or two evenings a week within 6 months of starting.

The alternative was a childminder, which is more expensive than the extra holiday camps would be (per hour - since extra holiday camp hours replace after school hours)

But if that's no longer needed, that's great.

What bad luck for you - but it's not representative of state primaries. Even a few years ago most had wraparound. The schools in our area of London have had wraparound for over a decade plus

It’s common to have good wrap around care at local schools, it isn’t free, it’s £6.70 per hour but you can use your tax free childcare account to make payments which is helpful.

The after school club has been run for 25 years so it’s not a new thing.

The next nearest school has wrap around care from 7:45 to 17:45.

The next nearest schools wrap around care starts at 7:30 until 17:30.

After reading your response I have looked around and can’t actually see any local schools that don’t offer comprehensive wrap around care at primary school.

Even the local Catholic School has wrap around care from 7:15 to 17:00.

Perhaps going to the private education sector means that you are unaware of the good quality state provision out there!

I live in a London commuter town and out of the five state primaries we looked at a few years ago, only one offered both morning and evening wraparound from reception. It is by no means standard.

That's great that it's changed since I needed it. DD is old enough to not need childcare now.

At £6.70 an hour, that wrap-around is a bit more expensive per hour than most holiday clubs (which you can usually also use the tax free account for). Since the longer holidays are due to longer school days, it balances out. So affordability of holiday clubs isn't an argument against longer holidays - you're paying for the childcare hours either way.

So it should be whatever is best for the kids - recognising that different things will suit different kids/families. Personally, I like the longer holidays and they work well for DD. ymmv.

I wasn't really talking about vandalism and theft, I'm talking more about Primary School children who are going wild with glitter and refusing to focus on anything except Santa and what he might be bringing them. It's cute until it's not! It was tongue in cheek, they are not terrible, they are just exhausted and over-excited and desperately need a break.

There is a big difference between wrap around care for school and its costs compared to £50 per day per child for holidays clubs, and many of them do not accept tax free childcare payments (my youngest daughter does a premiership football club camp) which is shorter in length and doesn’t accept payments from my tax free childcare account.

The existing six weeks holidays already has a negative impact on children’s education:

What is the Summer Slide?
The summer slide refers to the academic skills and knowledge that students lose when they are away from school for an extended period, like the summer break. It's a well-documented phenomenon, with studies showing that students can lose significant ground in their learning, particularly in math and literacy. This loss can lead to a struggle to re-engage with learning when school resumes.

How significant is the Summer Slide?
The extent of learning loss varies, but some research indicates that:
Students may lose an average of one month of academic progress during the summer.

In some cases, students can lose up to two grade levels of reading skills by the end of Year 6 if they don't engage in learning activities during the summer.

Factors contributing to the Summer Slide:
Lack of structured learning:
The absence of a consistent school routine and structured learning environment can contribute to forgetting previously learned material.

Limited access to resources:
Some students may not have access to books, educational materials, or technology at home, which can hinder their ability to maintain their skills.

Reduced opportunities for practice:
Summer holidays often mean less opportunity to practice reading, writing, and mathematical skills, leading to a decline in proficiency.

We have 2 primary schools in our village both have a breakfast club with very limited spaces from 8am but that's it. No after school care.

Have you spoken to other parents to demonstrate a demand for an after school club?

Also does the school offer additional activities after school?

Netball
Football
Hockey
Chess
Karate
and art clubs?

Local schools offer this until 16:45 each evening in addition to the after school club

There is a big difference between wrap around care for school and its costs compared to £50 per day per child for holidays clubs, and many of them do not accept tax free childcare payments

Wrap around is less money in one go, but repeated 150 days over the year - so even if it's only 30 mins extra that's £450 over the year. An extra 2 weeks of holiday camps is only 10x full days. So it balances out.

Where I live, there is a huge choice of both council and commercially run holiday camps - some running short days, many doing 8-6. Most of them accept tax-free childcare accounts (only some of the fancier forest school ones don't). Several offer reduced rates for low income families: not by referral, they actively invite you to tell them if paying is a problem. As I said, ymmv.