Summer holidays should be longer

[noblegiraffe]

Our kids have the shortest summer holidays in Europe, Italy have 13 weeks, even Ireland has 9.

They're under pressure so much at school they need more time to just be kids. Classrooms are so hot in the last few weeks of term that it's impossible to learn effectively anyway.

I think we should add at least an extra two weeks to the summer holidays, so break up near the start of July. This would bring us more into line with private schools too.

And with longer holidays it might help recruit and retain teachers, and reduce competition for summer annual leave slots for working parents. It could even reduce the cost of holidays as 'peak season' would be longer.

Not arrogant, I'm just right.
Accuracy is not a crime.

And it currently isn't. So I will stand by Schools, the same as the ones I work for, doing everything they can. As over half the time a child has is spent there, it's only right we do.

I would feel professionally remiss if I didn't consider this part of our role. Indeed, ahead of education, safeguarding is our first priority.

Well you can keep telling yourself that, but as per your previous statement, simply saying something is right doesn't make it true. If just saying "I'm right" is all we need to be accurate, we're all in trouble.

If you have any other pearls of "I'm right, you're wrong" wisdom, I'm afraid I've unfollowed this thread because I'm off to bed. Tomorrow is the holidays and I will be far too busy with my children for the next 6 weeks. Happy days.

People have explained already how teacher holidays and pay are calculated. You choose not to believe them, but they are right about it and you are not. It may not make much difference in most circumstances but it does with regard to things like maternity pay.

With the way climate is changing it would be wise to at least move the summer holidays in the UK to cover the hottest time.

Summer is so short in Finland, it shouldn't be spent inside buildings. Used to be that lots of businesses closed or reduced operations so much during the summer too so workers would be off a lot in the summer but now that's changing as so many people need summer jobs so there's always plenty of workers available. Though one workplace next door to mine always closes for the whole of July, but that's because its too hot to do their work there then (too hot in my workplace, I can only do meaningful work between 7 and 9am at the moment).
But autumn and a good part of spring are just shit to be outside in here so not a great time for holidays except for those who can afford to go abroad (but term time holidays are allowed here, if you ask permission from the head)

Looking at the menu for the open park lunches (which I don't know if they are the same as the supervised park lunches but they probably are because it'll be central kitchens providing to the parks) they're mostly free of the main allergies in Finland - lactose and gluten (actually always lactose free probably, same as in schools) but there are no options, there's one thing on offer each day so if you can't eat it you can't eat it, but the menu is online so can check beforehand and take a packed lunch I suppose if needed.

Children with additional needs or disabilities (high enough that they cannot be expected to look after themselves) are eligible for special childcare throughout the holidays anyway though that's not free (though probably income based fees like all other childcare so free for those on lower incomes)

Completely agree. My sister lives in Portugal, they make it work. In England it's all about pandering to working parents (my husband and I work full time, so we are in that category) and it's not fair on the poor kids. My sister works full time as does her husband and both live in Portugal (12 weeks summer holiday). He does shift work, she works from home and the kids play in the house and chill out. They're 4 and 8 and she makes it work. The kids need downtime as do teachers, the summer break is already too short.

It's good for them to be bored - sparks creative thought and gives them downtime from their normal routine. Let them be bored.

There's ways around this. If one parent can work from home ( not all can but many can) then the kids can 'chill'. Parents can set limits on phones and devices - solution to the 'teens' issue. But parents need to make these parenting choices, not being afraid of their kids reactions.

Lovely bigotry from you there with the 'Tabithas and Hugos of this world' insult.

Why on earth do you think that's OK?

Because it's punching up? At children?

Believe me, stoking the class war won't help those children you do care about.

Irish primary schools are 9 weeks but secondary school is much longer my dd broke up for her summer holidays on 26th May and doesn't return until the 26th August so a full 3 months for secondary schools.

There aren't better ways though are there - why the expectation that governments should do this and that? There are a lot of countries where mental health rates are far better than the UK and they don't have any or little government support. So where's the difference? Parenting, taking touch decisions to limit screen time ( it will never be something kids appreciate) don't install social media, letting kids be bored ( yes this is a uniquely British thing, parents worried kids will be bored - why?). My kids ask and pester for more screen time, my simple answer is you're not having it. They tell me they're bored - I tell them that's great, time for them to feel comfortable being bored, it's good for them. There's too much helicopter parenting, permissive parenting, micro managing kids. Let them have freedom to explore the world, let them have downtime.

Holiday length is inversely correlated with school achievement because kids forget everything over the summer

Nah not true at all. Plenty of high archievers in other countries and school holidays are longer. It's not about rote learning, AI will make that uncessary anyway.

Are there many workplaces that allow their employees to do childcare while working from home?

I agree with this.
Really feel for kids sat through the sweltering weather these last few weeks and now they've finally broken up the weather is cooler and wetter.
I remember writing to Ruth Kelly when she was education secretary about this in the 00s.
If they finished after exams finish and went back in August the year 11s would get a longer school year
It's so out of date.
And all this sitting cooped up in classrooms in sweltering heat is ridiculous.

Irish holidays are good for children but challenging for parents. We have an education system that is modelled as if a parent is at home. For the 8/9 weeks of Summer I have a detailled spreadsheet of camps that lmy daughter is at which is a mixture of full day and half day camps, our own holidays, locations, drop off times, camp buddy etc. The average camp price is approx €130 a week. We live on Dublin so acces to Zoo camp, archaeology, yoga , science, sports, fashion camps. They are amazing but honestly it can be stress city in organising and coordinating.

Children also tend to start school a year later and my daughter started at 5 years 4 months, for the first 2 years my daughter was in school from 8:40 to 13:20 and even now she finishes at 14:20 I have nieces in London so compared the 2 education systems.

How do we manage 1) I changed job to public sector so have a lot of flexibility 2) Camps 3) used of reciprocal playdates. I rey and mix up time off and down time with camps and its damn challenging. For working single parents its even harder. Its a different education system and the Uk seems to be more tradionally academic but let them be kids.

That's basically what my DC get. It's a nice balance. For example, since the LA added an extra week on to October break it meant we were able to take our main family holiday last year in October. This is fairly recent in the last few years or so that the week from summer was taken away and tacked on to extend the October break. Not everyone wants to have their main holiday in summer.

We, as a society, expect both parent to work therefore have to accept that school is a form of childcare. It frees up parents' time to be able to do that work.
If school is not childcare we need to return to a way of life that allows one parent to stay at home.

Of course safeguarding is a priority in schools

But the fact remains that schools are now closed for 6 weeks. If that means vulnerable children are now in danger and that children aren't being fed, then that cannot effectively be addressed by schools, however much you might want it to be.

What's the point in saying 'we need to keep it at 6 weeks/lower it to 4 weeks because 8 weeks will be failing vulnerable children' as if the 6 weeks aren't a problem and 4 weeks wouldn't still be a problem. The correct response to that is 'other services need to step up and proper provision needs to be made for those children so they are safe and fed for 100% of the year, not just 52%.'

If schools are expected to become the year-round solution then that is a fundamental shift in purpose that needs properly funding and resourcing.

This muddling through approach has to stop.

School is absolutely a form of childcare (those arguing it isn’t in the thread are being ridiculous). It allows both to work and I dont think anyone wants to return to the days of Mums being expected to stay at home. I was a stay at Mum for the younger years (as I wanted to) and finances allowed it, but we did have to accept life changes. I went straight back to work as soon as my youngest started school.

I actually don’t want to be at home all 6 weeks - I adore my kids but also enjoy my job, so I like a healthy balance. We make the most of weekends/annual leave days and completely appreciate those days. I like working so when we’re out on a nice walk, we don’t have to think twice if we fancy getting an ice cream or hot chocolate (and there are alot of families who don’t have that luxury even with two parents earning).

I’ve seen this subject all over social media in the last few weeks and its amazing the number of people living in another era with no clue about the interests of teenagers today. I saw a comment of ‘oh why can’t they just kick leaves in the garden like we did’ 😂 Yes that would fill 5 minutes of the 6 week Summer holiday!

Yes that is true, but my comment was more for those who are interested but struggle to afford summer childcare/activities.

I definitely agree that the children with disengaged parents are those that lose out in many areas, but I'm not sure what the solution is for this.

There is provision in form of funded holiday clubs, food banks, local charities. Our local church is doing a 'donation only' lunch and crafts club for anyone who wants to attend, 3 days per week. There is no requirement to attend the church, to show proof of need. Some may go because they need food as struggling, some may go because their kids are bored and they just want to get out the house for a couple hours.

Local charities and organisations are often so much better than national initiatives as they know the needs of local people which may differ area to area. There is also something about local voluntary services which vunerable families (who may have had intervention they perceive as negative from state run services) feel more able to engage with and trust, where the people running them are people they see and know from the area they live in, who are there because they genuinely care, not because they are paid to be there. As the saying goes 'it takes a village to raise a child', and local initiatives build up a commuinity and often provide a service for a fraction of the costs of government run initiatives.

Our local church is also doing some "donation only" summer club days but they are:
a) not for the full range of school ages - no lunches for teenagers, and no childcare or lunches for 4 year olds.
b) not for the full summer holidays, so if they are to alleviate hunger there's a lot of summer left and
c) not for a full day, so they are useless for working parents.

If school is NOT childcare then the economic necessity, and societal expectation, that families have two breadwinners needs to be backed up with

When I was a teenager in the dark ages, my DM did work but she was a teacher and therefore was around for most of that time, and in those days she did not have to spend half the summer working. I went on residential weeks (maximum 2 per summer I think - music camp, and Guides), read and visited friends, and did crafts and recreational sports (cycling, swimming). Others at that time (80s) would have been left entirely to their own devices and some wouldn't have eaten and some would have been in deep trouble regularly. Some would have an older teen sibling babysitting the younger ones.

Many would have had only one working parent, though, and their family would have managed on that one wage financially.

So if we need both parents to work, we also need there to be childcare. Moving things around in the year will make little difference (except if we have a much longer Christmas holiday as this is not a time when either recreational or childcare provisions tend to happen, but many parents need to work then).

The rest of the school year, school IS that childcare.

But what is the point in saying school holidays should be extended until no child would be worse off if they are? And tbh if children are already at home 48% of the year, I really can’t see why they need more time off!

there have been lots of interesting comments on this thread from others though and I think other approaches such as Scottish holidays, fun/outdoors lessons, an extra week in October, sensible uniform policy and not being penalised for taking kids on holiday in term time would all be much better ideas.

besides I can’t see teachers agreeing to have a pay cut to get another couple of weeks off. But could be wrong.