Summer holidays should be longer

[noblegiraffe]

Our kids have the shortest summer holidays in Europe, Italy have 13 weeks, even Ireland has 9.

They're under pressure so much at school they need more time to just be kids. Classrooms are so hot in the last few weeks of term that it's impossible to learn effectively anyway.

I think we should add at least an extra two weeks to the summer holidays, so break up near the start of July. This would bring us more into line with private schools too.

And with longer holidays it might help recruit and retain teachers, and reduce competition for summer annual leave slots for working parents. It could even reduce the cost of holidays as 'peak season' would be longer.

You think it's a reasonable balance and then you are more in favour of decreasing it than increasing it. Is it a reasonable balance or not? Do kids need a proper break or not?

What's clear from this thread is that many other countries have much longer summer holidays than England and it appears that the reason for this is that England is shit for childcare, shit for being able to rely on extended family for childcare, and particularly shit for caring for vulnerable kids when they aren't in school.

Basically "our kids can't enjoy the same longer holidays as other countries because England sucks".

If you want longer holidays go and work in independent sector! Otherwise you've chosen your sector knowing what the holidays are. They've been like that forever.

If there was adequate childcare options you’d be on to something. As the situation stands it’s a bad idea. I was left home alone at a very very young age - you’d get in a lot of trouble now- but my mother had no choice. It’s not good for kids mental health to stay inside all day watching tv for weeks on end.

Oh dear, it is the complete opposite. Irish schools in both sides of the border have longer hols yet their pupils do better academically.
In some Scandinavian countries education doesn’t start until they’re seven years old, some don’t do homework especially at primary school level, yet they’re outperforming ours. Jesus even the average British school kid can barely write intelligibly, can barely grasp their own language yet other countries kids can speak multiple languages.
Before parroting off, start reading up on the various countries education systems and how they do in comparison.

I feel sorry for the children you teach, given how poor your reading comprehension is.

I think my post was pretty clear.

I think 6 weeks is fine.

But if we were looking at a change, I would decrease not increase. How hard is that to understand?

I feel sorry for the children you teach.

Last refuge of the person who has run out of arguments.

Does anyone know how much annual leave people get in other countries? How do the Irish cover it, for example?

In Ireland and we cover it by camps, panic and a lot of arguments😅 I don’t know anyone who gets 34 days a year, most I know get between 20 and 30. We complain summer holidays are a bit too long and quote Germany!!! I’d love something later in the year when we force kids with colds and flus into school

There is no point in arguing with someone who can't actually understand what you're saying.

Oh I understand what you're saying. You're saying you don't care about vulnerable children for suggesting that the summer holidays should be 8 weeks and that we should sort out social care for vulnerable children and not just rely on schools which are only open 190 days a year anyway, but I who very much care about vulnerable children think that 6 weeks of them being with their abuser is a 'reasonable balance' because other children need a proper break.

I'm in favour of shorter but more frequent breaks. The work would be much more productive for the teacher and the students.
I teach (music) in a state school and a private school. The private school has longer holidays, but each school day is 40 minutes longer than the state school.
The state school has now decided on a two-week half term in October, but, in order to reach the prescribed contact hours, they've extended the school day. Lunch now starts at 1.20pm. Madness.

The problem here is, the holidays between a school year are too long. I am from EU and we only get like a week for Christmas, there is no Easter holidays, only Easter Monday off and I don't know which else you have like 2 weeks and we only get a week. But! Our summer holidays starts around 23rd of June till 1st September. We have lots to do back home as weather is great for 2 months and holidays at seaside or spa is a must. We live different life there. I am already struggling as my little one is starting school next year in UK, as I know next summer will be the last when he can enjoy freely for 2 months back home. I think children in UK don't know such entertainment we know, this why they are bored, but if you love being out instead of using your laptop whole day, the holidays are even too short. Absolutely agree. But for those who don't know the difference, I understand they think you are unreasonable.

I suspect the school with the 40 minute longer school day has a correspondingly longer lunchtime.

Having read this whole thread i think most people are advocating for a shorter summer and longer half terms, so it won't mean teachers working any extra just gives the kids the benefit of regular, longer breaks through the year which if we're saying about children being tired this seems like a good thing.

I agree that schools/teachers shouldn't be here to fix all of society's ills but let's be honest its not just schools. I work for a housing association and if you're an SLT at a school I'm sure you've been in CIN, CP or MASH meetings with HAs. Even as landlords we are expected to help residents with their mental health, sort out their finances, engage and report to social services, safeguard, deal with domestic violence..I mean, we are just a landlord!! But sadly services are so stretched that agencies like schools and housing associations are needing to pick up the slack. And I'd rather do that, and know in good conscience I am helping than shrug and say not my problem.

Re working hours. I have friends in both primary and secondary as teachers, and undoubtedly my secondary teacher friends do more than just "school" hours but even they get a good few weeks work free. One of my friends is a head of year and head of two subjects and they go away every summer for 5 weeks, usually taking the kids in the volvo around Europe and wild camping (so not my cup of tea haha). But they aren't the only busy occupation. As I say, I work for a HA, contracted and paid for a 35 hour week but worked 14 hours yesterday as I had court prep to do. I have a least 2 days a week like that. DH is a high ranking police officer, once at Inspector level they no longer get paid overtime or earn toil as its expected at that rank to work over their contracted 40 hours. On average he works 80-90 hours a week plus a 1.5 hour commute as crime and disorder doesn't care about working hours and police are chronically short staffed.

This isn't a race to the bottom, but its disingenuous to suggest only teachers work extra hours for no benefits (other than a 6 week summer, 2 week Xmas, 2 week Easter and 3 half terms "off"). I support teachers, look back at my previous posts and you'll see this, but I begrudge the race to the bottom.

Society has issues, and schools/social landlords/youth clubs shouldn't be the ones to plug the gaps but here we are.

My DC’s private school does have a longer lunchtime that my DC’s state school (30
mins difference). However, the school day at the private school is 1 hour and 10 mins longer in total (and DC’s state school actually has a longer day than some of the state schools around here). It’s not just about the longer lunchtimes…

Secondary schools in Ireland have 11 weeks off.

Personally I'd like a month in the winter, although the Christmas holiday is generous, same as Easter.

The real shit part in Ireland is the childcare issue. There are government grants available for official settings, we don't have a system for at hom-minders to receive the grants.

childminders can't use of the system unlike the UK.

It is to come in soon, it'll be beneficial to low income workers as most wouldn't be subsidised fo babysitter costs, only official childcare business, more sahm's can work by doing the course, taking in children, it is all in the black market ATT.

Most clubs run from 9 until 2, useless.

I know many people who couldn't return to work for a year due to lack of childcare options, no crèche available for babies without a year waiting list minium.

Yes, it's assembly or form/life skills time. Also available for music, extra academic help etc etc

In Scotland, we get 6 weeks holiday from start of July to mid August. We also get 2 weeks at October, but we don't have a May half term.
Our 'Easter' holiday is called spring break and is fixed for first the 2 weeks of April, regardless of when Easter actually falls, so this year they were back a week then had Good Fri and Easter Mon off.
6 weeks in summer is ample.
It would be impossible for most working parents to cover any more and that's a long enough break for the kids - and if the teachers can't manage with that then how on earth would they cope like those of us in the private sector do?!! I work in a pressured and stressful environment and would love a 6 week stretch in summer to recharge, and another 6-7 weeks spread through the year, but it's not 'real life'. I have to very carefully balance and juggle my 33 day allocation, which includes 7 bank hols.

There, I suspect, speaks a parent who doesn't have a very autistic child! SEN kids in particular can find it extremely hard to adjust to long breaks without their school routine. My son is ok for the first two weeks, starts getting more volatile in the middle of the long break and is a total nightmare for the last two weeks! It's very hard for him (and us!!) to be away from his school and his term time routine for long periods.

Lots of children experience a measurable fall-off in learning and retention over the long break, too. Ask a teacher. Quite aside from possible safeguarding issues with those who are at significant risk at home.

Voted YABU.

I think we should add at least an extra two weeks to the summer holidays

No, they should be shorter. For working parents, this is an absolute nightmare. No one wants this.

Bullshit. They absolutely are holidays for the teachers.

Children get bored, especially the younger ones. Older kids just end up glued to their devices or watching TV all day.

Kids need structure and something to keep them busy. And for working parents, childcare often costs more than the mortgage.

Seriously, you’re completely out of touch with reality. You’re not living in Europe — bring your brain back to the UK.

Of course they are a holiday for teachers.

But schools don't have holidays for the teachers. They have holidays because pupils are children and children shouldn't have to and don't work to adult schedules.

If school holidays were for the teachers we'd probably have the minimum legal requirement. But kids need and deserve longer off than that.

Don't forget more and more kids starting school in nappies!!

But kids need and deserve longer off than that.

They don't.

Research into "summer learning loss" shows that pupils, particularly those from low-income families, often lose progress during long breaks. Some fall behind by as much as two months in reading and maths.

For parents who work full time, long holidays are difficult. Childcare becomes more expensive and harder to arrange, and not every family can afford clubs, activities or trips. For many, the break ends up feeling more stressful than restful.

Around 1.9 million children in the UK are eligible for free school meals. When schools close for the summer, many of these children miss out on regular, nutritious food. This adds another layer of pressure for families already facing financial difficulty.

While longer holidays may support mental health and give families more time together, they also risk widening the gap between wealthier and less well-off pupils.

Rather than extending the summer break, it might be better to spread holidays more evenly across the year. This could mean slightly shortening the summer and adding more regular rest periods during term time.

I said kids need longer off than the legal minimum and that is why the holidays are longer. It's not for teachers.

The rest of your post is just repeating what has already been said that England is shit for childcare, extended families and for caring for vulnerable children during the nearly half of the year when they are not in school.