Summer holidays should be longer

[noblegiraffe]

Our kids have the shortest summer holidays in Europe, Italy have 13 weeks, even Ireland has 9.

They're under pressure so much at school they need more time to just be kids. Classrooms are so hot in the last few weeks of term that it's impossible to learn effectively anyway.

I think we should add at least an extra two weeks to the summer holidays, so break up near the start of July. This would bring us more into line with private schools too.

And with longer holidays it might help recruit and retain teachers, and reduce competition for summer annual leave slots for working parents. It could even reduce the cost of holidays as 'peak season' would be longer.

So you don’t have specified compulsory days and hours, which is different to the scenario you described.

after 6 weeks ours were ready to go back for the structure, routine and social side of school
even though we did a lot with them and didn’t struggle with childcare

This is ridiculous and entirely encapsulates the idea that schools should be the solution to all societal ills involving children. Children not brushing their teeth? Get teachers to do it. Children suffering from poor mental health? Send a teacher on a course and get them to deal with it. Children not safe at home? Open up schools longer and longer and longer until those children aren't at home at all.

There are places for kids who aren't safe with their parents, and it's not school. Schools are open to pupils 190 days a year for about 7 hours per day with the core purpose of teaching them stuff.

It depends. Some are effectively compulsory - e.g. periods of full-time, daytime teaching have core hours, just like school education. It's the other 50% of the role, e.g. developing research income etc., the parts of an academic job that most people don't know about but which keeps you employed and employable, which takes place in your own time.

And lets not forget the social inequality. A long break in the summer might be lovely for little Tabitha and Hugo, who'll be taken off for two weeks somewhere sunny, then might sound another week at Grannys, exploring her vast garden and the nearby woodland, who have good bikes to ride, plenty to eat and the money to be taken swimming/on day trips. Their mum and dad are more likely to have a house full of books & good quality board game,, they will continue to read and play games that maintain maths skills.

Other less fortunate children will have struggling parents, who have to buy the cheapest possible processed food and may lack the cooking equipment and skills for anything else. There might be few books at home, and mum and dad are juggling two jobs each and shift work, they don't have a car to drive to the library or bikes to ride there, and the bus is slow & expensive. Low income jobs tend to give only the bare minimum of paid holiday (12 days plus 8 bank holidays), so they are more likely to be left for long days with no supervision or only disinterested older siblings or cousins, while parents work.

Imagine the gap that opens up over that summer, between the luckier children and those less fortunate.

I love the two weeks in the end of October / beginning of November. The Autumn term is so long that it’s good to break it up.

A friend took her children to Australia to see friends for their October half term - it was tightly packed but they managed it within the fortnight (and it was Spring in Australia).

@FortheloveofCheesus the OP doesn't care about those children, just her own, she has made that very clear.

Gosh well are you arguing that schools shouldn't have any holidays at all then?

No. As I have said repeatedly I think 6 weeks over the summer is a decent balance

But you're arguing for more ..

Nobody who works full time has 12 days 🙄 The statutory minimum is 20 days + 8 bank holidays. Its not just NMW earners which only get 20 days + B/H, that's standard at all levels in many companies

Says the teacher!!

Oh, so you don't care about social inequity? Vulnerable kids are left to rot over the 6 weeks and you are happy with that?

etc etc etc.

We do everything you’ve listed in October half-term. Its not January weather! It’s my favourite school holiday, packed with walks, days out, halloween trails, there’s tons to do - if it rains, we have a day in or go to the cinema/swimming. I dont know where you live in the UK but our town in the south (tourist town!) is packed in October half-term so theres clearly lots of people within the UK still happy to holiday at that time.

There’s also a big demand for holidays abroad at that time before the Winter. Knocking a week off Summer and having 2 weeks to go away in October would be brilliant for families and school staff.

Project Managers, Reporting Analysts, Business Analysts, Developers, Travel Consultants, General Managers, Middle Managers, Coordinators etc. Do you want more? You're saying working days, I'm saying working hours. I've often done 60+ hours a week, when technically it's only meant to be 40hours. Everyone I know is in this boat, no matter their job when they are professionals and on salaries. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it is the norm.

They aren’t working days though are they, suddenly having to work every sunday example for no additional pay isn’t at all usual. I have been three of those people above, I have never had my days extended without additional pay or my consent over the day suggested after consultation.

What teacher is suddenly working every Sunday? On average I think if you consider a teacher a professional job, then they work less hours a year than other (less qualified) professionals. Again, not saying this is a good thing, just pointing it out as you've asked. I have family members who are teachers so not basing this on random assumptions.

I don't necessarily think it should be longer, but I'm very glad I took my child to the beach after school so much in recent heatwaves as I think that might be the peak of our British weather for this year. Last day of school today for my boy and it's not hot anymore.
It seems a shame that the hottest weather could happen before the summer has started but I'm sure if it was adjusted it would be a heatwave as soon as they go back to school instead.

This is in reference to someone questioning why teachers should get paid more if holidays get reduced - they will be working more days than they are contracted to, similar to someone on a weekday contract being forced to work Sundays for no extra pay.

"Most schools have air conditioning now."

What have you that idea. When I left teaching I had a classroom where the windows couldn't even be opened. It was like a greenhouse in warm weather.

Data from four years ago shows that only a tiny minority of teachers report air conditioning in their classrooms and you think that enough schools have hired air conditioning units (with what money?) or been retrofitted with air conditioning (with what money? They still haven't sorted out the RAAC problem or the many, many other dangerous structural issues with school buildings) since then to make this inaccurate?

I'm pretty sure I'm correct on this and you are not. The vast majority of classrooms do not have air conditioning.

Well you’re the one proposing extending the holidays, so surely you should have given a bit of thought to all these questions you’re asking? You sound very uninformed on the realities of what you’re suggesting.

It's a Mumsnet thread not a government policy document...

Am aware I didn’t specify, it was N Ireland.

I think 6 weeks still leads to learning loss over the summer for the children who don't have good home environments and opens up more of a gap between them and the Tabithas and Hugos of this world. Which, unlike you, I do care about.

But I think kids and teachers do need a proper break too and with the various HAF programmes etc, it is a reasonable balance.

I think increasing it to 8 weeks would not be. I think if we were going to change it, I would be more in favour of decreasing it than increasing it and I think that would be better for more families.

Since you are the one who started this thread, why don't you explain why you think 8 weeks is the right length for all children, not just your own?

It's the last day of term today and instead of feeling excited for the summer holidays I'm just feeling completely "meh" and have a "well summer is winding down now" feeling.
It doesn't seem like summer is starting it feels like it's ending.
Our "going away" holidays are usually a week at my parents home and a week at my in-laws home (both fairly ordinary Midlands towns). But I feel sad because all the summer related things have already happened and have been and gone.
Festivals, fetes, carnivals etc - they all seem to happen in June.
School run fetes obviously need to happen during the school term but even small community ones like ones run by churches - they've happened. They're done. They're over.
Nothing much goes on in August.
This isn't really relevant to the thread I know - I am just feeling very deflated today.
It feels our (England anyway) whole attitude to when the holiday's are, when exam season is etc are all wrong and outdated.