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AIBU?

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I am not sure I agree that Teachers have absolutely exhausting jobs - much more so than most jobs - as said by man on r4 this morning

1000 replies

RevolutionHere · 20/07/2025 20:37

i am not sure what my dh, former welder would make of this statement

this is an argument regarding long summer holidays,

OP posts:
EmeraldShamrock000 · 20/07/2025 23:08

Ivytheterrible2025 · 20/07/2025 22:55

I agree it is one of the toughest jobs, but so is mine.

I work 24/7 for minimal pay - around £340 a month.

I start my shift at 6am and finish around 10pm, but I'm on call every night.

If I am unwell I have to keep working.

I have to work overtime during school holidays without a break.

My job involves dealing with a teenager having a toddler style tantrum, changing a teenager's nappy, trying to communicate with a non verbal teenager, being frequently hit and shoved by a teenager.

Risk assessments need to be carried out (by me) for every outing.

I get no support and feel exhausted, tearful and drained.

I'm an unpaid carer to my son who has complex needs.

You definitely have a extremely hard demanding job every day.

Welding and teaching are both a walk in the park, in comparison.

I'm sorry to read that you are drained. I hope you find some respite. 💐

converseandjeans · 20/07/2025 23:09

Jenala · 20/07/2025 22:46

Of course OP. I'm not sure why teaching is seen as one The Hardest Jobs. Police officers, social workers, prison officers, paramedics are all overworked, difficult public sector jobs where arguably you will see even more antisocial, challenging and physically dangerous people. These kinds of roles also experience similar issues with senior leadership, high expectations - low rewards, unpaid overtime etc. Teaching isn't the worst on that kind of list.

Then you have physically arduous and dangerous jobs, such as construction, offshore work, logging etc where you risk injury and break your body long term and often aren't well respected for your role.

Then you have just low paid shitty jobs where you're on your feet all day, managed by someone who is managing you most likely just because they stuck around long enough, not because of skill, where you're paid a pittance and no one respects your work.

If there was a list of worst jobs, teaching simply wouldn't be up there in terms of physical danger, psychological danger, pay, lack of respect (in terms of how society views the role) etc compared to many many many other roles.

I know people won't like this but I think there's a couple of possible reasons why there's such a propaganda campaign about How Awful it is. Largely in part to do with the people who end up in teaching. Firstly, some are people who did degrees without a clear vocational route, graduated, then didn't know what to do so went and did a PGCE or something. People who started there aren't passionate educators and as far as I can tell resent the hard work and lack of praise that teaching receives. You can seen it in the lack of pedagogy and understanding of child development and learning. It's not even slightly a passion.

Then I think there's some who did expect it to be 'cushy' - short days, lots of holidays etc. Obviously it's actually a full time public sector person facing role. It was never going to be straightforward. I think those are the ones who go on loudest about how they actually work 8 - 5, not 9 - 3, and sometimes have to go in during the holidays and start a bit before term. You can spot these people because they point it out as though they are very hard done by, when obviously all of us who work full time recognise that kind of length of day.

It just tickles me as there aren't forums full of social workers bemoaning how they wrote up their assessment in the evening, got cross examined in court all morning and then spent their afternoon into the evening managing an emergency DV situation and personally getting a mother to a refuge with her kids and stuff and got home at 10.30pm - no overtime paid. No, it's teachers saying they did some marking at home and parents evening went on a bit. There is something different about those who teach that they appear unable to hear what they sound like. That's my theory.

Edited

I don’t think teachers help themselves on these discussions. I agree with your comment about social workers. They work a full day with difficult situations & often travel home & start writing up case notes.

I think there are more positives to teaching than negatives.

It seems like OP is trying to get everyone worked up & they have taken the bait.

elliejjtiny · 20/07/2025 23:09

Paradoes · 20/07/2025 20:42

SEN teacher here. I get verbally attacked by parents. Slapped, hit. You name it.. i deal with it.
I am a kind compassionate person but the job is breaking me.

By parents? I'm so sorry, i knew it was bad but i didn't realise it was that bad.

MasterBeth · 20/07/2025 23:09

Jumpthewaves · 20/07/2025 23:07

More than made up for by the regular 11 hour days, evenings, holiday days and weekends. Imagine if teachers were able to claim time in lieu- it would be way more than the 'extra' unpaid holidays.

Time in lieu of what? You’re not paid by the hour.

TheFallenMadonna · 20/07/2025 23:10

For teachers on a burgundy book contract, leave entitlement (paid or unpaid) is not specified, only directed time. If a teacher is contracted for 4 months from 1 September to 31 December, they'll be paid the same as a teacher contracted 1 May to 31 August, despite the number of non-directed "leave" days being very different. People who work in schools on actual pro rata salaries have much more complicated calculations, because they do have unpaid leave, whereas our contracts say nothing about that at all.

Lesina · 20/07/2025 23:10

DorothyStorm · 20/07/2025 23:07

Then why stay waitressing?

Why stay teaching? Everyone has a choice.

highincalifornia · 20/07/2025 23:11

Unconvinced8768 that’s disappointing if your teaching colleagues acted as if they had it harder as I assume class sizes were a lot lower than ward sizes. I wonder however how much work they were doing unseen, planning, assessing, parent interaction, report writing, staff meetings , training, talking to next school/ last school etc I assume as a nurse you got allocated time away from patients for this. Also as I will repeat the disrespect for teachers is soul destroying, and that takes its toll, you I assume are proud to say you are a nurse, people banged pots for you. Teachers go to work day knowing most parents dropping off think they have an easy job and could do it better. Teachers are reflecting this by leaving their profession in their droves.

Jumpthewaves · 20/07/2025 23:11

MasterBeth · 20/07/2025 23:09

Time in lieu of what? You’re not paid by the hour.

Well that shows how little you understand teacher contracts. It's all about directed time. Time off in lieu for the massive amount of extra time that it is expected teachers put in.

Dobbysdad · 20/07/2025 23:12

For me it's the cumulative exhaustion throughout the year. I've been sleeping for about 80% of this weekend so I can go back into school next week. I've worked in other roles but honestly it's the mental, cognitive, emotional and physical load that leaves me burnt out at the end of every academic year. Exhaustion is so subjective and there are so many variables that it'd be so hard to be definitive but yes, I think teaching is utterly exhausting. I've not replied to messages from friends for weeks as I've no mental capacity to deal with anything until the end of term

Pickledpoppetpickle · 20/07/2025 23:12

RevolutionHere · 20/07/2025 20:49

he said, absolutely exhausting job, much more so than most jobs and i dont believe he is right

Out of interest, when was the last time you stood in front of 32 children or young people for 5 days a week, over a 6 week period? And:

  • followed and adapted a scheme of work as you went along
  • differentiated for the full range of student ability in every class you teach *resourced every class you teach to include PowerPoints, worksheets, interactive quizzes, etc *managed pastoral care for a named group of students *updated databases (plural) with house points, behaviour logs, safeguarding concerns etc *marked multiple class sets of books at around 2 hours a set to include constructive feedback the students are expected to act upon and you make further comment on *delivered at least one extracurricular activity for one hour a week *attended a daily briefing meeting *attended a weekly subject meeting *undertook research to demonstrate something new in pedagogy to deliver to your peers *spent time reading pedagogical blogs interacted with peers, read new teaching ideas etc across social media *prepared and delivered assessments, including marking and reporting to parents *prepared for a parents evening and spoke with at least 40 different sets of parents over a 2 hour period after you had finished your normal working day..... ......I could go on. I work across a through school - literally nursery to 18 so am moving across site, managing being a different person in year 1 to what I am with Year 9 or year 13. I manage a subject in primary and a different one in secondary. I had 2 tutor group students last year who's home lives kept me awake at night. I marked external exams in January and June....

My exhaustion is real. I am sure my son who labours all day is equally exhausted. There is plenty of exhaustion to go round. But please don't tell me I am not exhausted until you have walked a mile ot two in my shoes.

Nosleepforthismum · 20/07/2025 23:12

CandyCane457 · 20/07/2025 21:53

The teachers I know generally don’t think they have it harder than anyone else. They don’t claim to have the only profession that is exhausting or tiring.

But they are sick of constantly having to defend their jobs. It never ends. Constantly people who have no idea what the job is actually like, making comments about their holidays, they need to toughen up, etc etc etc. No other job seems to get bashed as much as teachers do, and it makes them defensive.

I don’t know, builders are pretty hated by people on MN too. They all charge too much, are cowboys, love to rip people off and are even finished for the day at 4pm… Another job that the average person has no idea what it is actually like. At least teachers are paid regularly and on time!

TheFallenMadonna · 20/07/2025 23:12

Jumpthewaves · 20/07/2025 23:07

More than made up for by the regular 11 hour days, evenings, holiday days and weekends. Imagine if teachers were able to claim time in lieu- it would be way more than the 'extra' unpaid holidays.

There is no time in lieu because our contracts state clearly that we are expected to work additional hours outside directed time to fulfil our professional duties. It is contractual, not overtime.

Matronic6 · 20/07/2025 23:13

MasterBeth · 20/07/2025 23:03

But I don’t think this is at all unique to teachers.

Many professional and vocational roles put high demands on new entrants, and don’t pay by the hour. Junior doctors, early years solicitors, social workers, lots of corporate roles.

But a minimum wage waitressing job offers much less in the way of progression.

You said that teachers earn more than minimum wage and I responded to you that I did in fact earn less than minimum wage for my first two years teaching.

Where did I make the claim that this was unique to teachers?

DorothyStorm · 20/07/2025 23:14

pavillion1 · 20/07/2025 23:08

45 i think

Hmm. NHS workers of ten years get 41 days holiday every year. So they work under 44 weeks a year. So part time. Then when on maternity leave they can take holiday ON TOP OF maternity leave! Bloody work shy fuckers.

Youcantwinthemall · 20/07/2025 23:14

sandrapinchedmysandwich · 20/07/2025 21:47

This. I know teachers have it hard.

However. I work for the NHS. We have ridiculous case loads, huge responsibility including safeguarding, long unpaid hours, staff leaving and not being replaced, massive stress. We are all exhausted and stressed. Yet we get on average 27 days annual leave

Shouldn’t the answer to that be that you too deserve longer holidays, rather than reducing teachers’ holidays? Also, we get paid for 37.5 hours but it is impossible to get the job done in that time. I probably do about ten to twenty hours unpaid over time a week. I feel like my holidays (which I also don’t get paid for) are pay back for that. I believe in the NHS you do get paid overtime. Ultimately, we should all be fighting for better pay and conditions for all of us, not turning on each other over perceived injustices.

Theroadt · 20/07/2025 23:14

Teachers use the long holidays to plan lessons ahead, and recharge batteries - working with people every day esp kids is exhausting. The holidays are in part reflected in their pay. I am not a teacher. From observation, some teachers are pretty lazy, others really work super hard. Much like any profession. I think your post is goady and frankly yest your job is relevant, because you are making comparisons between jobs and therefore your own experience probably informs your current opinion - to suggest it is irrelevant is naive.

TheFallenMadonna · 20/07/2025 23:14

Jumpthewaves · 20/07/2025 23:11

Well that shows how little you understand teacher contracts. It's all about directed time. Time off in lieu for the massive amount of extra time that it is expected teachers put in.

I do know teachers contracts. I am a teacher.

DorothyStorm · 20/07/2025 23:16

Lesina · 20/07/2025 23:10

Why stay teaching? Everyone has a choice.

What is behind yours?

MasterBeth · 20/07/2025 23:16

Jumpthewaves · 20/07/2025 23:11

Well that shows how little you understand teacher contracts. It's all about directed time. Time off in lieu for the massive amount of extra time that it is expected teachers put in.

But it’s not all about directed time.

‘In addition to the hours for which you can be directed, a teacher may work such reasonable additional hours as necessary. This can include time for planning and preparing lessons and assessing pupils’ work.

However, the number of additional hours cannot be specified by your school. As a consequence, it does not count towards your hours of directed time.

All work undertaken during non-directed time is determined by the individual teacher and it is up to you to exercise your professional judgement in how you manage this.’

Jumpthewaves · 20/07/2025 23:16

TheFallenMadonna · 20/07/2025 23:12

There is no time in lieu because our contracts state clearly that we are expected to work additional hours outside directed time to fulfil our professional duties. It is contractual, not overtime.

Yes, but the point is that that often takes the salary to well below minimum wage because so many more hours are required. The expectations are way beyond what they should be. Most people understand that what is demanded in teaching often goes way beyond what is reasonable.

Theroadt · 20/07/2025 23:17

DorothyStorm · 20/07/2025 23:14

Hmm. NHS workers of ten years get 41 days holiday every year. So they work under 44 weeks a year. So part time. Then when on maternity leave they can take holiday ON TOP OF maternity leave! Bloody work shy fuckers.

Goodness. I get 21 days/annum and only 3% contrib pension. I do not get paid overtime. People in the NHS need to realise it’s not just about headline salary but the overall package.

Matronic6 · 20/07/2025 23:18

pavillion1 · 20/07/2025 23:08

45 i think

Full time is determined by the amount of hours worked per week. Not how many weeks per year.

Jumpthewaves · 20/07/2025 23:19

MasterBeth · 20/07/2025 23:16

But it’s not all about directed time.

‘In addition to the hours for which you can be directed, a teacher may work such reasonable additional hours as necessary. This can include time for planning and preparing lessons and assessing pupils’ work.

However, the number of additional hours cannot be specified by your school. As a consequence, it does not count towards your hours of directed time.

All work undertaken during non-directed time is determined by the individual teacher and it is up to you to exercise your professional judgement in how you manage this.’

Indeed, my point really relates more to the word 'reasonable' in there, which is very often taken advantage of.

EmeraldShamrock000 · 20/07/2025 23:21

converseandjeans · 20/07/2025 23:09

I don’t think teachers help themselves on these discussions. I agree with your comment about social workers. They work a full day with difficult situations & often travel home & start writing up case notes.

I think there are more positives to teaching than negatives.

It seems like OP is trying to get everyone worked up & they have taken the bait.

A social workers job is undoubtedly exhausting.
Public service workers, teachers, police, prison officers, ambulance service, doctors, nurses are more involved in social work than ever before.
I would consider all those roles to be mentally exhausting, they're very similar roles, responsible for the vulnerable.

MasterBeth · 20/07/2025 23:22

Matronic6 · 20/07/2025 23:13

You said that teachers earn more than minimum wage and I responded to you that I did in fact earn less than minimum wage for my first two years teaching.

Where did I make the claim that this was unique to teachers?

Apologies. You didn’t.

Nevertheless, it’s true.

And that’s because professional, salaried roles are often not given mandated hours. You are asked to use your professional judgment and talents to do the job you are paid a salary for. You are not hired on a hourly basis.

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