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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that religous education should be complusory for EVERYONE

435 replies

ReallyTired · 27/05/2008 11:26

I think that everyone should learn about ALL the major relgions in the world, whether they are Christian, Muslim, Buddist, Hindu, or Athesist or agnostic.

However I think that religous education should be taught as "This is what Christians believe" rather than "This is what WE believe". Children should not be subjected to attempts to convert them to different relgions, but they need to understand and tolerate difference. Ie. Learn that there are times that we should agree to disagree.

A basic knowledge of the five world's major relgions helps children understand current affairs, history and avoid offending people from other cultures to themselves.

If parents want their children brought up as a Christian, Muslim, athesist or pagan then they can take their children to church/ Temple/ Mosque out of school hours.

I like the assemblies at the the special school I work at. They have no relgious songs, but the school has fun singing pop songs. Although the songs are non religous they have lyrics encouraging good behaviour.
All the children are included and gain from the experience.

OP posts:
AtheneNoctua · 27/05/2008 15:41

I'm not asking for anything more than I have. The church school as it is is just fine. I'm very happy with it.

I have reacted because you annoyed me when you suggested I should go pay for my own school. I obviously can't. And even if I could, I still shouldn't have to. State school is for everyone.

Anna8888 · 27/05/2008 15:41

IME the religious ethos of village church schools is a lot weaker than the religious ethos of private prep.

Anna8888 · 27/05/2008 15:43

I think you are just cross because you can't afford it

I can be cross because it isn't available where I live

Spero · 27/05/2008 15:44

Then presumably AN, if I lived in your area, if I DON'T want my daughter to be taught in a manner which presumes that the christian faith is the one true faith I have to pay for private education or home school??

Crikey. does anyone want to join with me in establishing the first Jedi high school?

AtheneNoctua · 27/05/2008 15:45

That's a pretty broad statement. I don't know very many village religeous schools. I only know the one my kids attend (in a West London suburb). It is connected to the church we atttend. Most of the kids at the school also attend the church. It makes for a nice Christian setting 6 days a week (5 at school, one at church).

AtheneNoctua · 27/05/2008 15:46

No, Spero, I think you'd have plenty of choice -- though maybe not Jedi. But you could definitely get into a non-religeous state school.

Anna8888 · 27/05/2008 15:47

In village church schools (often attached/next door) many children will not attend the village church. Residency within a certain catchment area, not church attendance, will be the entry criterion.

GrimmaTheNome · 27/05/2008 15:47

CofE schools vary. Even watered-down, its still giving priority to one view.

Spero · 27/05/2008 15:48

Damnit this is an abuse of my human rights.

AtheneNoctua · 27/05/2008 15:48

No, I'm not cross because I can't afford it. As I said before, I like the school. If I didn't like the school then I might be cross about not being able to afford private.

Anna8888 · 27/05/2008 15:48

(Athene - it's r-e-l-i-g-io-n - one e, two i's )

AtheneNoctua · 27/05/2008 15:50

And... Entry is based on church attendance. There is no catchment. Although some places are reserved for children who live closest so that if youliterally live across the street but happen to be buddust you should still get in.

GrimmaTheNome · 27/05/2008 15:51

In our area, when we were looking, entry criterion were:

  1. attendance at the CofE church
  2. attendance at some other churches (I think it was some designation to include other protestant churches)

and only after that,proximity and older sibling attendance.

AtheneNoctua · 27/05/2008 15:54
Blush
GooseyLoosey · 27/05/2008 15:59

Athene - just for info, I live in a village where the only school is CofE and indeed the only schools in the villages around us are also state funded CofE schools. The main admission criteria for them all is geographical proximity to the school. Therefore whether I wish it or not (and I do not), the local state school is pedalling religion to my children.

As said below, I have no issue with religion being taught in a wider cultural/ethical/ historic context and to that extent I agree with the OP. However, we should not have separate RE as it gives religion a status it does not warrant and religion should not permeate any other aspect of education.

AtheneNoctua · 27/05/2008 16:03

Hi Gossey. I can have more sympathy when choice has effectively been taken from you. I certainly have a choice where I live. Maybe you should move to London.

GooseyLoosey · 27/05/2008 16:06

God forbid (no irony intended), I moved from London!

Anna8888 · 27/05/2008 16:07

In the villages around my parents' house in Kent, entry to village church schools (the only available state primaries) is all catchment based.

When I took my daughter to Mother and Baby at 3 months old in a nearby pre-school, the headmistress came round explaining that she only had 14 places per year and maybe we would like to put our children's names down for reception

PeachyWontLieToYou · 27/05/2008 16:19

Mine attend a Church school but only as it happens to be the village school, there is only one non-Christian family there I am aware of (Muslim) but several very vocal Evangelist famillies who are Governors and are massively influential and lead to confusion on aspects of the curriculum such as evolution.

For my family I dont mind the school but desperately wish the school taught more than Christianity with a smidgin of Judaism (the old testament)- I may be well qualified to teach my children about the beliefs of other people (halfeway through final essay of woprld religion degree), but most aren't, and I wonder about the exposure of the teachers to other faith groups, I would suggest t is minimal.

I get aprticularly ocncerned when one lady, Head Governor 9and also a friend thoughw ea rgus this topic often) tries to tell me about the evils of Islam etc and relays stories from the Qur'an which, as someone who has actually read it, I ama ware are quite definitely made up. She even believes its balsphemy to ahve a copy in the house: my argument is that Jesus taught peole to love their neighbours, i think I may have missed the parapgraph about 'but only ones who follow the same belief system as your own'!.

In order for us all to try and exist together we have to understand the absics of each others belief systems- including humanism, athreism and agnosticism. There si so much in common in all belief systems and so much intelligent debate can be ahd from subjects such as 'where does goodness come from/', debate that can be inclusive and enable young people to learn a lot about themselves and their own motivations and priorities: a key factor in a truly effective (not necessarily exam focussed!) education system.

Actually, I think that's how RE should be taught: stuff for the littlies on the basics so they just understand each other- what their friend Aisha is celebrating at Ramadan and why Mr Singh wears a turban, through the 'factual' bits inearly senior school (what the Qur'an and Bhagavad Gita are, etc, witha few of the mythologies) and after that using the knowledges as a reference for exploring themselves and general philosophy a bit more.

I detest this 'people shouldn't believe in God' as much as I detest any person who insists their own faith holds the answers: we are a supposedly free society and just because we don't agree with something doesn't mean its wrong. Or that nothing can be learned from it. yes atrocious things have been done in the name of religion- I suspect most of them would have occurred with other excuses if religion had not existed. And not all religious systems are owners of a violent history- look at Jainism and Buddhism for example, is there any belief system more pacifist than Jainism?

Somebody mentioned the five religions mentioned; in Uni we often discuss the 'big six': Sikhism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism. the degree used to also cover a separate module on humanism also, but this changed to Jainism (I think when the teaching staff changed but am not certain). There are also cultural modules which refer to Shinto, Tao, Bon, etc and are important for putting the other faiths in their proper context.

Oh and the bit about believing in God.... traditinal Buddhists don't, and they are covered in RE In fact there's a whole world of discussion as to whether Buddhism is a religioon at all, but thats by the by.

ReallyTired · 27/05/2008 18:05

Peachy, you have expressed my views in better langauge than me. I want my son to have world view and prehaps you are right it should cover 6 religions instead of five or maybe seven instead of 5 if you include being an athetist.

I haven't done a degree in world religions, but I would like my son to have the benefit of someone who has. I don't mind if that person is religious or non religious or whether they are black, white, male or female.

Provided the teacher is professional and has good subject knowledge, I would be happy to have them teach my son.

OP posts:
MsDemeanor · 27/05/2008 18:09

Is there any evidence whatsoever that harping on about ideological differences between people really does foster love and understanding? I think it equally likely that it divides children.

Anna8888 · 27/05/2008 18:13

MsDemeanor - if you understand where other people are coming from (their point of departure), it is much easier to understand their POV (point of arrival). It doesn't necessarily make you agree, but it might make you more sympathetic to their stance...

Greyriverside · 27/05/2008 18:18

stitch, no time now, but which post was obscene? I wrote several and I don't know anything about your personal hangups

pointydog · 27/05/2008 18:22

To op, that is how it's taught (unless you get a very Christian teacher or head - which isn't that uncommon, unfortunately)

LazyLinePainterJane · 27/05/2008 18:34

not sure how you are supposed to be obscene, Greyriverside. But then I agree with you

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