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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that religous education should be complusory for EVERYONE

435 replies

ReallyTired · 27/05/2008 11:26

I think that everyone should learn about ALL the major relgions in the world, whether they are Christian, Muslim, Buddist, Hindu, or Athesist or agnostic.

However I think that religous education should be taught as "This is what Christians believe" rather than "This is what WE believe". Children should not be subjected to attempts to convert them to different relgions, but they need to understand and tolerate difference. Ie. Learn that there are times that we should agree to disagree.

A basic knowledge of the five world's major relgions helps children understand current affairs, history and avoid offending people from other cultures to themselves.

If parents want their children brought up as a Christian, Muslim, athesist or pagan then they can take their children to church/ Temple/ Mosque out of school hours.

I like the assemblies at the the special school I work at. They have no relgious songs, but the school has fun singing pop songs. Although the songs are non religous they have lyrics encouraging good behaviour.
All the children are included and gain from the experience.

OP posts:
Original poster
ReallyTired · 27/05/2008 13:17

Greyriverside,

I think that your children are being groomed to be athethists.

Surely teachers can be trusted to be professional. How do you feel about a born again christian being a maths teacher or taking children away on school trips.

Religous people aren't paediophiles.

OP posts:
LazyLinePainterJane · 27/05/2008 13:19

I am happy for schools to include religion as a subject in their curriculum. However, I think it should be taught alongside Philosophy and Ethics as a whole subject rather than the attention it seems to receive as a subject. When I was at secondary school I received as much time in RE lessons as I did in History which I think is unbalanced, especially considering the bleed over effect RE already has into other subjects.

fizzbuzz · 27/05/2008 13:21

Some schools offer that to KS4 instead of RE. (I think anyway, an fairly sure school down the road from me does)

Spero · 27/05/2008 13:23

Agree with LLPJ. I'm not saying 'discard' religion but it just doesn't seem a subject suitable for 'teaching' in schools; its part of history, why wars were fought etc but anything else and you seem to be on quite dodgy ground.

Most religions for eg appear to say that they are the only true religion and that non believers should have quite horrid things happen to them.

Leave it out of schools. if parents feel strongly that their children should 'learn' a religion, they can go to an afternoon club or whatever.

Greyriverside · 27/05/2008 13:25

I know of a christian who slips in tidbits of religion into other lessons. Doesn't realise why that is bad of course. If you think your imaginary friend is the only way to get eternal life it's hard to keep quiet about it. I doubt he is the only one.

So while I will settle for simply keeping religion officially out of the classroom I think in many ways religious people should be on a list so that their suitability to be in charge of children can be considered carefully.

Religion is a delusion much like believing that you are napoleon. It's dangerous and not something to be encouraged.

You will be shaking your head in disbelief now, but consider how you feel about moonies, mormons, rastafarians whatever. You are an atheist too. I just disbelieve in one more religion than you do.

Spero · 27/05/2008 13:27

Greyriverside - i really like your last sentence. Is that you or is it Dawkins?

fizzbuzz · 27/05/2008 13:27

I hope no Christians are slipping tidbits into my ds's lessons. I would go mad...propoganda is another name...

Greyriverside · 27/05/2008 13:30

Wish it were mine because I love it

"I contend that we are both atheists, I just believe in one less god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all other possible gods, then you will know why I dismiss yours." -Stephen F. Roberts

UnquietDad · 27/05/2008 13:31

Dawkins has certainly popularised the "Napoleon" view, and the "I just disbelieve one more religion than you" is in his book too. All sound stuff.

Spero · 27/05/2008 13:32

ooo I will google Stephen F Roberts immediately and hope that he is alive and single.

Greyriverside · 27/05/2008 13:39

Fizzbuzz, ask around. Talk to teachers who are also religious. They will say "no of course not" and they will mean it since most will be honorable in their way.

But then some will add "unless they ask of course......"

And then you will know that they are being taught that the world is round, but that 'many people believe this is because god made it that way'

Spero · 27/05/2008 13:40

Sadly am unable to ascertain if Stephen F Roberts will marry me, but i did find the answer to my Jedi query

In England and Wales 390,127 people (0.7 percent) stated their religion as Jedi on their 2001 Census forms, surpassing Sikhism, Judaism, and Buddhism, and making it the fourth largest reported religion in the country. The highest percentages of such responses were typically in cities with high student populations.[29] In the 2001 Census 2.6 percent of the population of Brighton claimed to be Jedi. (from Wikipedia)

wow. that's a lot more than I thought.

So is this taught in our schools? it looks like it should be

ChairmumMiaow · 27/05/2008 13:41

What a great discussion.

I sat out of RE lessons when I was at school (28 now) because our teacher was a staunch Christian and only gave a cursory nod to other religions (which I was actually interested in) while spending a long time discussing the bible. Everything was from the Christian perspective - as "we believe" which of course as an agnostic at the time, I did not!

She was so bad that one of my best friends who was a practicing catholic took the "other" side in the "is there a god" debate just to wind up the teacher! (Knowing her bible better than most she made some great arguments)

I would love to have learnt more about various other religions, and agree that RE should be taught both in a historical context (how many wars have been caused by organised religion!) and alongside general ethics and philosphy.

Of course I think it would be more useful if kids had more time to learn to manage their own households - being taught to cook and budget.

I will be extremely displeased if DS comes home from school as my neice has, telling me that "the baby jesus did this" - as I don't want him being taught that any religion is real (DH and I are now staunch atheists rather than agnostics). I'd like him to be able to read / learn about stuff and make up his own mind. If he wants to go to church I will take him (or get one of his relatives who goes to do it) but I shall not be encouraging him, and wish I could trust that this would not be done without my consent at school.

Is it still the case that schools have to include a religious element in assemblies? This is something else I have an issue with!

So no, because I don't believe that RE teaching can be done well across the board, I do not think it should be compulsory and I do think YABU :-)

fizzbuzz · 27/05/2008 13:44

Tee hee riverside. I'm a teacher, and often get asked if I believe...I hold my tongue, or just say no.

I have to stop there or it would all come spilling out . Myself and a colleague were not impressed with an assembly when the Gideon Bible people turned up....I also find the fact that schools are meant to include an "act of purposeful worship " everyday bizarre. Why.....? Are the kids allowed to opt out?

MegBusset · 27/05/2008 13:58

The daily act of worship in assembly is still compulsory for schools, however parents can withdraw their DCs from it.

GrimmaTheNome · 27/05/2008 13:59

'purposeful worship' sounds like an oxymoron to me

Religion is - unfortunately - an unavoidably large element of our history and current affairs. Children need to be taught about it in breadth (though not over much depth) in schools precisely to prevent parents who feel (or rather believe) strongly teaching them one very biased view out of school. At secondary school it should be 'warts and all' - can't be at primary because far too nasty in places.

fizzbuzz · 27/05/2008 14:01

But I teach secondary, and some of them are old to enough to decide one way or another. I think they should be able to withdraw if they choose to.

Not sure how one single act of worship can include all muslims, siekhs jews, christians, non-believers in our school

Spero · 27/05/2008 14:04

Fizzbuzz, this is surely the strongest (and only) argument needed for state schools to be entirely secular? Otherwise your assembly will last for DAYS

Fennel · 27/05/2008 14:07

I can see far less justification for a compulsory act of worship than for teaching children about religions. Forcing people to worship is bizarre. and an abuse of human rights, I'd say. Even children should have a choice in who they worship, never mind what their parents believe.

fizzbuzz · 27/05/2008 14:07

Yes..I know....also have a lot of kids interested in wicca/paganism? What about them?

Tortington · 27/05/2008 14:07

religeon shouldn't be in schools full stop.

the learning about faiths should be incorporated into citizenship classes IMO and be about tolerance and differences within our country.

RE education should be scrapped.

and my kids go to a catholic school!

fizzbuzz · 27/05/2008 14:08

And aren't all Emo's meant to be into Black Magic, according to Daily Mail

We've got loads of Emo's too

fluffyanimal · 27/05/2008 14:17

"Religion is a delusion much like believing that you are napoleon. It's dangerous and not something to be encouraged." Of course, this is a point of view no more objectively true than any belief in religion, and no more tenable as an argument for shaping education policy.

KayHarker · 27/05/2008 14:23

Well, when it comes to certain biases, I went to school with a history teacher with a GINORMOUS chip on her shoulder about socialists, and there was an attending bias. People will bring their own biases to bear on teaching, because that's human nature.

I'm sure it would terrify some atheists to know that I have a happy-clappy Christian friend who prays for the children in her care, and her committment to their education and welfare is 110%, and based squarely in her faith. It's part of what makes her a good teacher.

Aside from that, I have no problem with an overhaul of how state schools teach about religious beliefs and moral frameworks. It's all a bit moot to me, but I have no great affection for Christianity taught in the RE system.

Spero · 27/05/2008 14:28

Fluffyanimal, i'm not sure I agree what you say about objectivity. i have heaps and heaps of objective and empirical evidence that god does not exist (or he does and he hates us).

I just think that 'religion' and those who believe in it has been the cause of so much misery and hatred and death that I would rather my daughter just cracked on with learning to read, write, do a bit of maths and then she could think about all of this when she is older.

If she finds faith, great. if that makes her happy.