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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To give DD school (and the SATs agency) some basic statistical literacy?

188 replies

drspouse · 19/07/2025 10:30

DD has her SATs report with her end of term report.
She got 89 in her English grammar and 93/94 in her other English and in Maths.
This has been reported as "not reached standards" or similar by school.
As a PhD in a subject requiring statistics I know that 85 would be one standard deviation below the mean (100) and that scores of between 85 and 115 are statistically indistinguishable from 100.
Put another way, if you have to have 100 to "reach standard" they are assuming that half the children automatically won't reach the required standard.
AIBU to explain this to you and to school and my fellow parents?
DD was in a group of 2 struggling with maths at the bottom of the class for several years and I'm really proud not just that she's progressed but also that she's now in the middle of the national scores.
This is a ridiculous way to "explain" to parents (unless their explanation is wrong and it's not a normal distribution with a median of 100?)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Auroraloves · 20/07/2025 12:15

SATs are a measure for the school’s performance , don’t t worry about it

allthesmallthingsarehere · 20/07/2025 12:24

Auroraloves · 20/07/2025 12:15

SATs are a measure for the school’s performance , don’t t worry about it

I mean, this is bollocks.

They are a measurement of the child's ability (to an extent, all assessments are flawed).

AS WELL AS THAT, those results then provide a measure for schools to be monitored on how much progress their children have made and how much 'value added' - where children have done better than their previous data predicted.

To say that it's only for schools and not to worry about it is ignorant and doesn't help you to support your child with their school career.

SATs do not assess whether kids are nice kids, future Olympic gymnastics, going to be an amazing community advocate etc - but that's not what they promise to do! Our kids are more than JUST SATs, but their academic attainment is part of the whole big picture of who they are.

ConstantlyTired312 · 20/07/2025 12:34

Charlotte120221 · 19/07/2025 10:55

Even if it were a normal distribution, the assertion that scores between 85 and 115 are statistically indistinguishable is a stretch.

There clearly is a vast difference between a score of 85 and 115 in any scenario

Exactly, especially when the lowest score is 80 and the highest is 120.

I'm a secondary maths teacher and there is a huge difference between an 85, 100 and 115 scaled score

ConstantlyTired312 · 20/07/2025 12:36

Auroraloves · 20/07/2025 12:15

SATs are a measure for the school’s performance , don’t t worry about it

They are used in secondary for predicted grades in all subjects, so will determine sets and be used to ensure a child is making good progress

Dizzybob · 20/07/2025 14:13

For the spelling and grammar test a scaled score of 85 means the child got 8/70, scaled score of 100 means they got 35 or 36/70 and 115 means they got 60/70.
They’re not similar scores at all.

Cloudysky81 · 20/07/2025 14:23

You've assumed the mean, the standard deviation and the fact its a normal distrubution.
Maybe you should redo your statistics GSCE.

FortheloveofCheesus · 21/07/2025 08:21

The education system in the uk work hard to avoid giving you a crystal clear view of how your child did compared to their peers.

You basically want to know exactly where you child sits relative to cohort. This level of detail isn't helpful in supporting her to progress. If anything op, it will probably make you worry. What you need to know is she is at the low end of the cohort and you should expect her to require additional support at secondary.

They don't release all the very specific data because they would have to do it throughout the ranges and it would become something parents would obsess over (most parents also are not statisticians and would misinterpret). Being greater depth wouldn't be enough and you'd have a whole chunk of parents getting cross with school if their child wasn't in the top 1% or whatever.

FortheloveofCheesus · 21/07/2025 08:44

SATs are a measure for the school’s performance , don’t t worry about it

The way they measure the schools performance is through the children's results. Its not like a school inspection where the grading is based on observation of the teachers & the schools policies etc.

As a parent you should pay close attention to your child's scores.

Lastnightofhol · 21/07/2025 17:49

Thank goodness the OP started this thread before emailing the school.

That would have been… embarrassing

although given head a good chuckle

MadKittenWoman · 21/07/2025 19:11

100 is expected achievement. Less than this is standard not achieved. 112 is greater depth.

MadKittenWoman · 21/07/2025 19:12

ConstantlyTired312 · 20/07/2025 12:36

They are used in secondary for predicted grades in all subjects, so will determine sets and be used to ensure a child is making good progress

THIS!

JassyRadlett · 21/07/2025 19:22

FortheloveofCheesus · 21/07/2025 08:21

The education system in the uk work hard to avoid giving you a crystal clear view of how your child did compared to their peers.

You basically want to know exactly where you child sits relative to cohort. This level of detail isn't helpful in supporting her to progress. If anything op, it will probably make you worry. What you need to know is she is at the low end of the cohort and you should expect her to require additional support at secondary.

They don't release all the very specific data because they would have to do it throughout the ranges and it would become something parents would obsess over (most parents also are not statisticians and would misinterpret). Being greater depth wouldn't be enough and you'd have a whole chunk of parents getting cross with school if their child wasn't in the top 1% or whatever.

They do release the score by score, percentile by percentile data, every year.

catbathat · 21/07/2025 20:14

FortheloveofCheesus · 21/07/2025 08:44

SATs are a measure for the school’s performance , don’t t worry about it

The way they measure the schools performance is through the children's results. Its not like a school inspection where the grading is based on observation of the teachers & the schools policies etc.

As a parent you should pay close attention to your child's scores.

I think progress is used more to measure performance more than absolute results which vary enormously depending on the cohort

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