To think that life seems better in rep of ireland?

[PunnyOliveTurtle]

ok...hear me out...My DM is Irish and she has not been home in a good few years, I haven't been over since I was 15, I'm early 40's now. So i decided to bring her over to visit her sisters as they are all getting older...late 60s/early 70's.

I had a wonderful time. I caught up with all of my cousins...and here is where I noticed the divide...they all have gorgeous homes and I mean stunning! Some in the country, some in the town, all fab new builds or gutted and updated old houses. A couple in new housing estates which were FAB!!
One of my cousins has just bought a new home...her DH is driving a 2025 car, they are off on hols next week. I asked her if she won the lotto and she laughed saying she wished, savings are now depleted and she was "broke". I know she has no credit cards because she metioned that she didn't have one when we wer talking about booking dinner somewhere and they wanted to take a deposit.

They all have great jobs...a lot of them are teachers...like i was. But they are no where near as stressed as I was. They are on holidays already and have been with a few weeks.Some are nurses but work part time in private hospitals, others work in big pharma companies, banking etc.Their dh's also have great jobs, engineers, managers in tech/pharma, one owns a construction company, one is a farmer.
All and I mean ALL of their DC who are of uni age are in university...no student loans. They have a grant scheme apparently. None of my cousins themselves have student loans...they are in 30's to mid 50's. (Can you tell we had an in depth discussion on uni and fees etc!)
Their DC aged 15+ all have summer jobs...in a local chippy, local cafe, one on a farm etc. My 18 yr old cant get a job at all!!

Everything just seemed so positive there...and im sure its not but I cant put my finger on it...it really got me.
I'm struggling most months...this trip was part on credit card. DD looking to start uni and i dont know how I'm going to help her... I know they say dont compare and I know there must be those struggling in Ireland too but there seemed to be A LOT more money being thrown around.

I'm not sure you would have done very well on the reading comprehension section. I said England scored the same as Ireland on maths and within one point on science.

In terms of subjectivity, it is others on this thread that are demanding data (they didn't believe that Ireland has a deforestation problem or that Ireland is racist, for example).

Ireland is below average on that report.

Countries lower than Ireland include Poland which has much stricter immigration controls and keep a very tight handle on who can get in.

As the UK is not referenced, what's it even got to do with your point?

You're just slinging random mud everywhere for reasons that I don't really get.

I entertained this with ChatGPT…

🔍 Summary: Which Country Is "More Racist"?

• England has:
• More entrenched institutional racism (partly due to a longer colonial legacy)
• More public data and awareness
• A higher rate of hate crimes, but also more legal mechanisms and activism
• Ireland has:
• Less racial diversity historically, but racism is growing as diversity increases
• Racism tends to be underreported, with weaker legislation
• Less structured dialogue on colonialism, white privilege, and systemic racism

So, England arguably has more visible and measured racism, but Ireland may have less acknowledged but still harmful forms, especially in day-to-day life and public institutions with low accountability.

I then dared to ask it “in terms of being racist, which is worse?

👉 If by “worse” you mean more systemic and measurable racism:
England is worse — because:

• It has longer-standing racial inequalities (education, housing, policing).
• Black and minority groups are more heavily policed and discriminated against (e.g. stop-and-search rates, Windrush scandal).
• There’s more hate crime, especially racially motivated violence.
• Historical colonialism and imperialism have created deeper-rooted racial hierarchies.

📊 Examples:

• Black people in England are 7x more likely to be stopped and searched than white people.
• Hate crimes in England rose by over 100% in the last decade (Home Office data).
• The Stephen Lawrence case showed how deep institutional racism went in policing.

👉 If by “worse” you mean more subtle, unacknowledged racism, or less protection for minorities: Ireland may feel worse to some minorities — because:

• There’s less public awareness, less open conversation about racism.
• Protections are weaker: no standalone hate crime law, poor enforcement of equality laws.
• Many minorities feel ignored or isolated, especially in rural areas.
• Racism is often minimised or dismissed as rare, even though it's present.

📊 Examples:

• Many African, Muslim, and Roma residents report racism in jobs, housing, and policing.
• No proper ethnic data collection in health, education, or crime makes racism harder to fight.
• Refugees/asylum seekers in Direct Provision face systemic neglect and marginalisation.

summary

• England is worse in terms of scale, depth, and institutional racism — but it's also more advanced in acknowledging it and trying to fix it.
• Ireland has less visible racism but fewer protections and awareness, which can make racism feel invisible but deeply isolating.

So if you're a racial minority, you may face more systemic challenges in England, but feel less publicly supported in Ireland. Each country is “worse” in a different way.

i think it 6 of one and half a dozen of the other…

I suggest you take your deforestation complaints to the Irish government as you seem extremely het up about it, again for reasons that I do not understand.

And this study sadly didn't include Ireland, but shows the UK to be among the least racist countries.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/most-racist-countries-survey-study-discrimination-uk-b1077399.html

I guess the two actual studies I posted probably give a better answer than Chat GPT, but you do you.

What about this one?

Research finds UK is far from a ‘racially just society’ | The Standard

The sample there is somewhat skewed towards more problematic countries it seems.

Congrats on being less racist than Iran and Russia I guess. Well done.

And again, no direct comparison so how does it help your point?

Regarding the racism figures. It should be remembered that multi culturalism is new to Ireland, really only widely evident in the last 30 years or so.

Other European countries colonised various parts of Africa, Asia and South America and as a result they have a longer history of multi culturalism. Portugal colonised parts of Africa and have generations of African Portuguese citizens. The Moors conquered parts if Southern Spain.

Ireland is going through a transitional phase. It's not any more racist than anywhere else. As a previous poster commented, any race issues are most routed in the lack of housing available and understanding the priorities and competing needs of everyone that is in need of assistance.

But they don't give any answer, because they don't compare the two countries.

🫠🫠🫠

Try and read - or preferably listen to - Ross O'Carroll Kelly books. Hilarious take on the Syth Co. Dublin milieu, read hilariously by Rory Nolan, who sounds exactly like Philip Boucher Hayes. On the other hand The Snapper is a Roddy Doyle classic from the Nort Soide.

Social history of Dublin there from all angles.

I wouldn't say the Irish are any more racist than other countries, far less so in fact, apart from a few nutjobs who tried to get elected but failed spectacularly. However, Irish people can be snobs though and that stretches through rural and urban settlements.

As for comparisons with UK, well to me the UK is an amazing place and I just cannot get over how well preserved all the little villages are with their 16th century cottages and the duck pond and the old village churches. Idyllic - to me. But the reality for all of us is getting from A to B, getting somewhere to live, commuting, cost of living, and so on. But I think the Irish have something that UK people might lack a little - a great sense of humour, a kindness, openness, chatty, friendly and devil may care attitude. That's what makes a country attractive, not the schools, the architecture or the forests. IMHO.

I'm a huge fan of the ROCK but I always wonder how well these books travel even outside of
Dublin. Do people get them? The references are so specific.

Yeah well probably but it’s a fairly balanced response to be fair…

Fair enough. I just rechecked for England.

Ireland scored 516 for reading and England scored 492. Maths is same score and Ireland 1 point above for Science.

However, my second paragraph is important.
The Irish kids remain in school and go onto 3rd level. And come out debt free!!!

52% of Irish adults aged 25-64 have a bachelor’s degree or higher. And 60% in aged 25-34 bracket.

42% in England, covering all workers and jobseekers. 57% in London.

Lots of people outside of Dublin think they are snobbish and stupid.

1000s of Dubliners live their lives by them, particular the South Co Dubs, who think they have made it on their property values. Apparently some guy drove around Terenure throwing €50s out of his sun roof shouting Affluence at the neighbourhood. Southside Dubs are obsessed about private school and ensuring their children make the correct connections. It is very much a boys club.

It can lead to problems, certain people need to be reminded the books are satire. When everyday people start emulating the characters, it can be troublesome.

The books are popular with 50 something year olds. They (the books!) havnt aged well, so sexist and snobby and ridiculous. However one gets pumped out every Christmas and they are an easy gift, easy reading, and the stoopid jokes lift the spirits and gets people through the season.

Anyone not familiar with Irish accents will find them a very difficult read. They are primarily aimed at a Dublin market.

Hmmm maybe around Limerick and Munster Rugby circles. But I know what you mean. Anyway I'm about as far away from the Rock circles as could be, but I think everyone knows about the DORT accent and the goings on there. I suppose as it's a total skit on the proverbial DORTIES that Paul Howard has created a figure of fun for some, but for others ROCK is the real deal, and mirrors a lot of their lived experiences!

It's just exhausting educating someone who wants to cling to a little rock and never visit anywhere else. You have some responsibility to broaden your own horizons, you know! I've never met a bunch of people so proud to have tiny horizons

Utterly laughable post, given that yesterday when I was listing lots of things to do in Ireland you retorted with wanting things that were within walking distance of your home. Very broad horizons!

Yes, the rugger buggers enjoy the books, private school gang, some emulate the spoilt brattish arrested development. Even when the same levels of social circles hysteria isn't evident outside of SOCODO (South County Dublin).

This is kind what I mean. I've seen this reaction before. But it's not supposed to be a positive depiction. They are a parody.

Yes I know, but the point is, they were/are oversubscribed not solely for Irish language reasons.

This thread has encouraged people out of the woodwork who are keen to knock the uk just because it’s the uk. I’m Irish with English family and friends and have read through all of this with a heavy heart. There is no need for it. Both islands have their fair share of arseholes and I have met the best and worst of people in each place. I can tell you now that neither place is perfect at all and I am currently witnessing (through a family member) awful racism in Ireland that is very sad to see. It’s stupid threads like this that encourage the behaviour I’m seeing here. Irish people or English people aren’t more stupid or any cleverer than the other. Or kinder. Or funnier. Or nicer. Please get a fucking grip, people - you are showing yourselves up on this. It’s embarrassing.

Yes, it's a parody of how rich, entitled, snobbish and connected they are. How many safety nets they have. There are lots of people that like to be associated with that level of financial security.

Its an aspirational club for many people.

The books are more popular with the upwardly mobile people. The people who don't need to show off, don't need to virtue signal, find the books a little distasteful.

The recent books are more politically correct, Ross and Honor and all the characters are starting to learn lessons.

The series has started to get stale but they ll keep churning them out, Opps battery dying. I ll post

To be fair, he's been going since the late 90s. That he's kept it going this long is astonishing. It's not the type of thing that usually runs for more than a few years.

Ireland is joint 5th most racist in this study, and with a score (44) that is above the average (39). Are you that blinded by nationalism that you can't read the graph?