Who is being unreasonable - different standards in the home

[Cantgetbehindtheradiator]

I value a tidy house. I fully subscribe to the “tidy house, tidy mind” mindset. It genuinely affects my mental health, focus, and overall happiness. If it were up to me, we'd live with minimal stuff, clear surfaces, and everything put away after use. But of course, I live with two young children and a husband who doesn’t share the same standards, so over time I’ve had to learn to relax my expectations.

And I have relaxed. I’ve made peace with a certain amount of chaos. I see the joy in things like a half-finished magnatile or LEGO project that stays out for a while. But there are limits. I’m not okay with anyone stepping on things instead of over or around them, or having no clear floor space to sit and play. Things get broken and lost, and we don't have the money or environmental bandwidth to be replacing things that should have been cared for. I’m not aiming for a showroom, I'm not on socials so definitely not motivated by an insta house! I am aiming for a home that functions, that feels safe and calm, where you’re not stepping on crap all the time.

What’s frustrating is that every time I try to accept a “lower bar,” it seems to drop even further. My husband is much better than he used to be but the truth is he just doesn’t see mess. He needs it pointed out before it even registers, and I’m tired of being the one to notice. Our kids (7&4) also don’t care, which I get is age-appropriate and pretty standard, but it still feels like I’m constantly the one picking up, reminding, chasing, and trying to keep the whole place from falling into chaos.

So I'm questioning if am I the one being unreasonable? I feel like the stereotypical nagging mum, clinging to some outdated idea of order while everyone else is fine with mess. If 3 out of 4 people are fine with stuff being lost, broken, or cluttering up every surface, does that mean I'm the one who should let it go?

YABU - go with the majority and learn to live with it
YANBU - I don't even know what, the opposite I guess 😂 stick to your guns and keep trying to train them all to tidy up after themselves!

Imo, men don’t see mess/stuff that needs cleaning*. My husband and I share the household tasks, but he definitely doesn’t see beyond the surface.

I’ve definitely had to lower my standards, but I’ve also learned to ask if there’s something that needs doing that I’d like him to do. He’ll do it no problem, he just needs asking.

A good solution is making sure you have plenty of storage and that it’s organised. That way there’s no excuse for him to not pop stuff where it belongs. Maybe work on that together as it shouldn’t just be you carrying the load - you might just need to give him step by step instructions on what you need his help with. 🫣

*much the same way they can’t find anything, especially if it’s right under their nose.

I don't believe men don't see mess, I believe the majority of the time they think it's someone else's responsibility. I haven't observed cohabiting gay men who don't see mess.

When I wasn't responsible for the house, I didn't notice what needed doing. I didn't notice the toothpaste running low or that the carpet needed cleaning because I wasn't expected to take care of it. Many men have a clean fairy and don't feel an obligation to pull their weight.

This is because they have a division of labour and the housekeeping isn't part of their division.

This is why women get to menopause and end up wanting to live on their own with cats, minus the adult children (by then) and the dh. In the end it just drives you nuts. I am currently in this living hell, with dd aged 22 and Ds aged 13 and a dh who keeps all kinds of useless shit “just in case”.

We had two big toyboxes in the lounge and at the end of the day, the kids had to pick up all the toys and chuck them in the box - didn't take long and it was a non-negotiable. I couldn't relax in the evening if there was stuff everywhere! Get more storage if you need it and then everything has a place.

It depends on here

tidy man messy woman. He’s anal, uptight and abusive, leave him

messy man tidy woman. He’s lazy, doesn’t care, and abusive. Leave him

Please don't perpetuate the whole "men don't see mess" bollocks.

Your issue isn't your standards - it's that your DH is a lazy fucker who thinks it's your job to clean up after him, and as your children don't know any better, they're following in his footsteps.

No one is wrong or right. In the same as you, hate mess but my kids don’t, they won’t clear up after themselves, DH is even worse. I’ve just duly accepted it as my duty. It does piss me off though.

This is why i love living on my own.
Men and women are the same some see mess some dont.
My mother a clutter bug and never saw mess wouldnt wash a cup up.
My step dad clean and clear minimalist.
They spilt up thank god, mother still the same living in filth the last i heard of her. Step dad lives in india and still a minimalist i visit him throughout the year.

They absolutely do see mess but just think its somebody elses job to deal with.

I have learned this after losing my shit at one who found it perfectly appropriate to make food and leave a trail of soup, butter splodges, and crumbs all over the worktops not five minutes after id cleaned them all. For the umpteenth time.

Remarkably in this new post apocalyptic world he can make lunch and leave the kitchen spotless.

My other half doesn’t see mess. I often get accused of nagging when I ask them to clean their mess up, or of being passive aggressive when I do it “to prove a point”.

I like things to be clean, they don’t really mind. The solution appears to be me keeping things how I like…

Stop talking about what you don't like, and just agree standards and systems you all follow. Ask your DH to agree a system.

So maybe in your house you could have a deal that you all tidy for ten minutes straight after tea, straightening everything out, as a shared routine.

If stuff gets broken because it was left on the floor, don't replace it, that's just a natural consequence.

I have found it easier if we have separate tasks that play to our strengths-
dh cooks
i wash pots/do sides
dh hoovers
i sweep
dh does dog walks
i do bathrooms and laundry
dh does diy/cars/technical stuff
i dust/deep clean
Dd and ds tidy their rooms and put their own clothes away

if tidy is your thing I’d get the kids to tidy away at the end of the day and you do general tidying but your dh has to step up in other ways.

Apparently our cat scratched the carpet upstairs trying to get into a room they shouldn't be in, lots of little bits of carpet left on the landing.
How do I know this? Because my husband called down to tell me when he went up for his shower. I didn't think anything of it until I went up to the loo and found all of the little bits of carpet still there😡 he obviously saw the mess and chose to to leave it for me. I picked up and disposed of the carpet bits and walked into the bathroom to find he had left the bath full of hair and bits......
This is an almost daily cycle. I genuinely think previous generations of men have been told that holding down a job is enough, everything else should be done by 'the wife' (even if she too is working 40 hrs a week).
I have an 18 year old son, no way is he turning out like his dad!

Oh, my point was they do bloody see the mess!

They do see mess they think it’s not their job to clean it. They know if they leave it someone else will do it.
So glad I live on my own. Don’t give up on your dc though they are still young enough to learn.

I’ve kept on about this my children who are a little older than yours are starting to remember and want to have tidy rooms.
I also found that by pretty much giving my husband the job of keeping on top of the kitchen I don’t have to worry about that room. It doesn’t bother him to have the surfaces in our hall and lounge untidy but it does bother him in the kitchen as it gets in the way so it’s worked out.

It's not a men v women thing but people do perceive mess differently. Put simply for some.people, the effort required to keep a very tidy home is soo stressful it makes life a complete misery, and they enjoy more of a "lived in" environment. For them, living with someone who insists on tidy surfaces and cleaning done before rest etc makes life permanently stressful.
Others are like the OP.

OP I would compromise not in standards but in rooms. For instance, insist on your bedroom being tidy so you can relax and have it as a retreat.
Insist on a clean bathroom and kitchen maybe.

But let go of the living space as it's just too stressful for everyone else to live up to your standards. Make sure they have space to be themselves and relax without living in constant fear of you asking them to pick something up.

DD lived with 2 gay chaps in yr2 Uni, shared flat, they were both much messier than her. She never saw that as gender-related, she saw them as individuals.

(I am female). i was the slob in the house when I was married. A big reason I got divorced was all the passive aggressive resentment xH had against me for not caring about tidying up the way he did. What a relief to revel in single person household slobbiness now.

I hope OP works out a better solution for herself. x

Oh, and the "tidy house, tidy mind" thing is definitely a myth - in fact as trend, the opposite is true.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/09/messy-always-late-and-swear-like-a-sailor-it-just-means-youre-super-smart

I don't see this as a man vs woman issue. My husband definitely sees and deals with mess. My mother on the other hand... I so carefully clear up after her and I'm upset every time I see her mess it up immediately again, until I realised that the clear kitchen worktop that I value is not comfortable to her. She likes to see it covered in shit (in my eyes), in her eyes she likes to have things around her and our ideas of a clean worktop differ. She think my clean and empty worktop looks stark and doesn't like it at all. I've had to give myself a strong talking to to not see it as Me=clean=good and Her=dirty=bad, but it's still difficult.

In your case they might say you're a clean freak and your standards aren't reasonable and we have no idea if that's true. If you're sure that's not the case then presumably yes, they should all be making more effort but clearly you're all going to need to communicate more to reach a compromise everyone is happy with.

🤣🤣🤣

DH doesn't really see stuff like dust. The plugs and stuff all needed sorting out behind the telly unit as we had bought new extension socket strips, He was just going to unplug the lot, then plug back in, I was saying it needed all properly dusting and vacuuming and brandishing the dusting glove, he just looked at me, so I ended up doing this dusting so I knew it had been done. I think, well know, he would have just changed them and ignored the dust.

Oh wow I never realised a 'tidy mind' meant smart, it's more noise to me. I can't think straight once the house reaches a point where there isn't a single clear space. Have even created a clutter friendly areas so people have a space to dump stuff, and then there are bits which need to stay clutter free (like the kitchen work surface for example, which are needed multiple times a day for food prep). If we reach a point where I can't look around and see a space which isn't in need of attention it's like I get static on the brain and I become less functional in pretty much every area. Sometimes I'll even start stumbling over words and I can feel myself being more snappy. However I've realised it has to be pretty bad to get to that stage, and I have relaxed a lot without negative brain/emotional consequences. Definitely wouldn't say anyone is living in constant fear of me 😂it's more trying to create a team where we all pitch in. Sometimes my contribution to the team is actually just to unclench. We have had discussions about 'zones' in the past, so my room as you say and kitchen surfaces. But it'll always be me who brings up when the mess is encroaching on those zones/a full factory reset is required!

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely used to be a clean freak, and would happily revert to that if I lived alone. Sometimes DH takes the kids away and I start off by getting everything tidy and clean, and then live in blissful neatness until they get back 😂 But I hear so much about these precious years with young kids, and a. I don't want to spend it all tidying and cleaning and b. I want them to feel like this is their home as well as my house, so as I say I've relaxed my standards a lot. It just kinda feels like the more I relax the more everyone else relaxes, which then doesn't feel that fair as I'm making massive compromises from how I'd be comfortable living and rather than meeting me halfway (I'd even settle for a quarter!) it's more like 80:20 and counting! Sometimes it's hard when there are just 2 of you (plus kids) to know if you're being reasonable holding a boundary, this one I genuinely felt like I'm swimming against the tide with DH and DC so wanted to check I wasn't being ridiculous. This thread suggests not, so will go back and reiterate again that we need to be more of a team about noticing the mess, and dealing with it, not just leaving it to one person who is more sensitive to it than the others.

@MrBallenIsaFittie yes it would seem they absolutely do! That's so cheeky!