To think family estrangments are very common in England

[Maldon]

I am Irish but lived here many years and it appears people going long term no contact from immediate family members is pretty common here. I can think of 5 people of the top of my head. Is it just me?

Only on mn

It seems like it on MN for sure. Don’t know about real life as I’m not in England .

Maybe depends what part of England but not the case in my family or extended or even the town we live in so many connected families

Also not English, but I was non-contact with my mother for a number of years. We did reconcile and have a much better relationship towards the end of her life which I’m glad about, but I don’t regret the period we didn’t speak, I think it was necessary for me to be able to assert myself as an adult and for her to realise that I wouldn’t be emotionally blackmailed or disrespected anymore.

I think people are less willing to tolerate bad behaviour and the mantra of ‘but they’re still your ‘ and ‘you only get one mum’ are less loudly ringing in people’s ears which is a good thing in my opinion.

It's common online because you only hear about the worst cases, for the most part people who go non contact on mumsnet have very good reasons.

Reddit is different, it's often filled with entitled brats who go non contact because their mum voted Republican or said they don't want to call them they/them. Younger websites have a contingent of coercive younger people trying to force their parents to be compliant on every single matter or they punish them by going non contact. Too many young people have soaked up the idea that saying No, or disagreeing with them is "abusive" and are in for a sad surprise when their new online family disappears into the woodwork.

And the other factor is that in real life it's far easier to avoid abusive parents if you don't live in the same village, or close by, which is probably why it is less common for people to assert those boundaries if they stay in villages or towns close to one another.

I think it depends on the individual circumstances, but overall it is more common to hear it talked about these days, and that probably means it is happening more all over the western world.

I only know myself who is NC with my sibling who belittled me, bullied me, took out their frustrations on me at a very sad time after we lost our father and has 2 faces. I do not ever want to see them again and feel better without them in my life. They used to take their temper out on people and I didn't want to deal with it. They really presented 2 versions of themselves to others and I know that horrible side and they have been pretty shallow too. None of my old friends or other family are NC with immediate family I know of.

If I was an LGBTQ+ person I wouldn’t speak to anyone in my family who voted Republican either, or someone who ignored my wishes on what to call me.

The only estrangement I know was actually within an Irish family! Fall out over a will.

I think there is probably a lot of low contact rather than no contact being exercised that not all parties are aware of (and by extension the wider community). Low context is easier and less obvious.

I doubt this is an England thing. It’s perhaps a more recent thing in that it has an active label on it?

Social media forces us to set boundaries in our relationships or label them?

While I wouldn't generally use NC/LC labels IRL, they're good shorthand for knowing where things stand – like not talking to someone, not letting them follow on socials, or avoiding events they'll be at. I've been no-contact with an uncle since I was around 8/9y in the 90s, though I certainly didn't know that term back then.

I think people are more attuned to abuse / bad behaviour / mental illness and do something about it for their own wellbeing . It’s not a decision taken lightly but if the relationship is toxic , always has been and always will be it’s a case of self preservation and removing yourself from that person .

Well, I’m Irish and there are two instances of this in my immediate family, so definitely not just an English thing.

What I think it's much more common is some sort of bitterness/issue but no one talks about it! I have no issue with telling my parents or sibling if they upset me/behaved like a dick & likewise.

I find violence, bullying culture, drinking and misogyny more of an issue in Ireland than U.K.

As with most things that you’re reading about or seeing around you @Maldon - it’s a human thing. English people are human as well as Irish people. I’m in Ireland and all I see is Irish estranged families. Cos that’s where I am. But I don’t deduce from that that it’s common amongst Irish. Abuse in family’s is unfortunately something that happens and you know as well as I do, Ireland has had its fair share of that. Stop with the ‘Aren’t English people cold and awful’ narrative please.

Anecdotes are not data

You have to be more conscious about such choices now. In the past if you weren’t close you moved away. Job done. Now with communication so easy, reducing contact has to be worked at.

I don't think it's an English thing but I think there are definitely cultural aspects for some people that prevent it.

Eg, I have a 30something Muslim friend who experiences familial abuse and have a 50something Irish Catholic friend who also experiences ongoing familial abuse. In both cases, the abuse is significant - emotional, financial and physical - and started when they were young. It's all either of them have ever known.

One has had years of therapy to deal with her feelings around it and it's had a significant impact on her life. The other is too scared/loyal to go for therapy and be honest about how he feels. Both of them would love to he free of it but both have also said that they will never reduce contact with their families for religious/cultural reasons.

As for those who say "only on MN". A lot of the time, you just wouldn't know. Every single one of my colleagues could probably say they don't know anyone who is NC with family. But they do because I am.

Most of my friends would say the same. I've only told a small handful of people in the last 13 years.

My brother tells people who ask about family that both of our parents are dead (one is).

In many cases, you just simply wouldn't know.

Irish too and I can tell of several people in Ireland with estranged family members! Half the time they pretend there’s no issue, as God forbid the neighbours would find out.

I think it’s quite common to be told ‘they don’t speak’.

Tbh, saying family estrangement doesn't happen in other cultures/societies because some have stronger family values or whatever is a bit like when people say women's rights damaged marriage - women belong in the home and traditional values matter because the emancipation of women caused a lot more divorces.

Divorce has risen since women gained financial freedom and is still more prevalent (given MN posts) in situations where a woman is financially independent. But ti's not becaise financial independence causes women to be selfish, uncaring, fickle, uncommitted or feckless. But because it gives women the opportunity and means to leave a damaging relationship.

The correlation is there but the root cause identified is wrong.

I wasn’t aware of family breaches ever until long after I’d married Dh, and belatedly discovered that there were two aunts and their entire families that nobody was in touch with following a post-bereavement row. And then it happened to me, in that when Dh died there was a post-bereavement row and there’s a person I don’t speak to and never will (well, we can exchange pleasantries at funerals but that’s it). I’m not going to invite the agony they put me through to happen again.

Whether it’s particularly an English thing I don’t know. My own family hasn’t done it so far that I’m aware of apart from me, but I also have vast swathes of the family that I don’t make any effort to see, there’s just too many of them.

People don’t rely on families like they used to. They move all over the world, and many find friends more supportive in a crisis. The option and freedom to choose stems from financial security. In the old days people couldn’t afford to cut off their family as they were needed for support.

two people i work with went no contact with their mothers

I actually think it’s quite common to a degree but people don’t always label it as such. Years ago my granny and her sister stopped communicating as they just upset each other. Loved each other to bits but were a bit toxic on the phone. I think there will be lots of people who see family at quite a low level but would never describe it as reduced contact.